Originally Posted By ElKay Well, I guess the cat's out of the bag. Here's how Tom Delay, Jack Abramoff, and Delay's former aide Michael Scanlon became so successful in politics. <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/11/03/abramoff/index_np.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/news/feat ure/2005/11/03/abramoff/index_np.html</a> "The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them." WOW, if I were an evangelical GOPer, I sure would feel used. Not only do they make fun of Native Americans (taking their money, then calling them idiots) but that's the same way they think of Christian conservatives (wakos).
Originally Posted By Beaumandy To hear a far left moonbat call anyone a wacko is pretty funny. Oh, Delay is going to walk and Ronnie Earle is going to be run out of Texas.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>To hear a far left moonbat call anyone a wacko is pretty funny.<< Ummm, didja read the article, or even ElKay's post very carefully, Beau? ElKay didn't call them wackos, fellow Republicans did. Slow down on pressing "SUBMIT CANNED RHETORIC" for a moment and read the article.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Because their plan works. Fundamentalist christians will believe anything you tell them, as long as you couch it right.
Originally Posted By planodisney gadzuux, we dont believe anything anybody tells us. That is just a stupid statement. It is amazing to me the anger and hatred you feel for christians. It first i wanted to get angry by your above statement, but looking at this, and at all of your previous posts, i just feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for you blind idealogical rhetoric. i feel sorry that you feel the need to stereotype people whose opinions you disagree with and cant understand because you dont share the same values. I feel sorry for you because you seem completely unable to seperate your hatred for conservatives and religious people, from your ability to be rational and intilectually honest. I feel sorry for you that something has made you so bitter and angry at religious people, of which I dont want to speculate about. I hope that someday you can intilectualy mature enough to understand that people arent gullible or stupid just because they see things differently than you do. T
Originally Posted By gadzuux Don't tell me - tell abramoff and scanlon. They're the ones who came up with the "recipe". And yes, it was successful. What does that tell you?
Originally Posted By cmpaley Very interesting. Someone makes a statement critical of *fundamentalist* Christians and it becomes a criticism of Christians in general.
Originally Posted By planodisney cmpaley, can you explain the difference to me between a fundamentalist Christian and a regular old good one? I am a Christian who reads my bible, actually believes it and tries to put it to daily use in my life. I try, which is very difficult, to live my life the way that the Bible tells us that gos wants us to live. I am very conservative in my beliefs, and vote accordingly. I believe that the bible is the word of god, and that Jesus was who he said he was, the Son of God. I also attend church every Sunday at my southern Baptist church in Dallas. Now, I also am a college graduate whi is currently in grad scho9ol for my MBA. I am extremely well traveled and very up to date on populat culture. I watch as many news broadcasts as possible, from a variety of different sources, as well as listen to NPR and conservative talk radio. I dont understand, why i would be so stupid, because of the first part of my post, that I would believe anything some swindler sweet talked me into. Do yo guys realy believe that once you become a born again Christian that you become an ignorant fool. Many non-believers convert everyday and become devout bible believing Christians. When does this magical change to complete ignorance occur. I am a fundametalist Chrisitan, and would put my intelligence and deductive reasoning up against anybody on these boards. do you realy feel this way, or is it that you just dont like them because they vote republican? Shouldnt you start hating catholics also, who for the first time voted a majority republican because of moral issues? I am tired of the conservative christian bashing on here. We are people with feelings and concerns just like you are. Hopefully some day, for your sake, you guys can gain back powere and strip our right to vote, or concentration camps might be better. i am sure you will say that is ridiculous, but with the way you guys talk about conservative chrisitans, and the hatred for us in your party, can we realy be too sure?
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>cmpaley, can you explain the difference to me between a fundamentalist Christian and a regular old good one?<< Considering most fundamentalist Christians don't consider the vast majority of Christians (Catholics and Orthodox) to be Christians...I'm not sure how to answer that. In fact, I'm sure I would be considered an apostate by you and your fundamentalist brethren because I'm going to be joining myself to Mystery Babylon, the Mother of Harlots, aka, the Catholic Church.
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Originally Posted By gadzuux Plano is sincere, so I try not to comment directly on his posts, but rather see the bigger picture. I'm not sure that always works, because he sometimes responds as if I'm targeting him personally. Tread lightly with him, STP.
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Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder >"Anybody else see the irony here?" No, but your answer reeks of immaturity.< What answer? I'm fairly certain I asked a question.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder I think the problem here is that fundamentalists deal in absolutes. When someone question them, they regard it as an attack or an affront to Christianity as a whole. They don't see themselves as the unbending edge of Christianity that does not allow for a difference of opinion.
Originally Posted By DlandDug The problem as I see it (and I have addressed this before) is that we are often talking about completely different things when we say "fundamental Christian." There are fundamental beliefs that bind the entire body of Christ, ie: Christians. Despite doctrinal differences and often widely divergent sociological viewpoints, there are a few beliefs that are universal. Generally they are: There is one God. Christ is divine, and the only path to God. The Bible is the word of God. There are, of course, many interpretations of these fundamental beliefs, but generally these are accepted. On the other hand, there are Fundamentalist Christians. That is Fundamental with a capital "F." This is a distinct movement within Protestantism. It is marked by a strict, legalistic, and narrowly defined interpretation of scripture. Fundamentalists are in general reactive. The movement gained its strength during the 1920s when much in American society was being questioned, not the least of which was religious belief. Many who claim to be fundamentalist are not Fundamentalist. But they do hold to fundamental beliefs, and are distressed when these beliefs are minimized or mocked. Back on topic-- the statements by these two are par for the course for the sleazier of the political consultants. They are NOT symptomatic of (or even exclusive to) the Republican party. (The Democrats, you may recall, had their own embarrassing flap over their snookering of African-American church leaders.) This too, shall pass.
Originally Posted By ElKay "Back on topic-- the statements by these two are par for the course for the sleazier of the political consultants. They are NOT symptomatic of (or even exclusive to) the Republican party." WRONG, again Dougie. Scanlon was an aide to DeLay. DeLay made a practice of going to many industry lobbists and insisting that they hire his friends, or suffer the consequences. Abramoff it appears to be a friend and close associate with DeLay and his GOP political machine. Whenever DeLay needed cash, he'd go to Abramoff. Whenever Abramoff wanted to grease an issue before Congress or the Admin. he'd name drop DeLay and doors would magically open for him. These two guys were in tight with DeLay and no doubt got access to the databases of Christian contributors and direct contact with Fundamentalist opinion leaders to use as they saw fit. What you dismiss, Dougie, is the fact that people associated with DeLay have so much contemp for the born-again Christian faithful. It seems that they think born-again Christians are akin to Pavlov's dogs, ringing their "issue" bell and they will follow without hesitation. Notice that the issue that Abramoff was attemptig to mobilize the Christian faithful had nothing to do with traditional value issue. Rather the issue that Abramoff was trying to push was Indian gambling, an issue that I would thing would be totally against born-again believer's values. But seemingling I underestimate the "faith" of these good people. I'm convinced that the cynical and contemptous attitude by Scanlon and Abramoff are more widespread that born-again followers would like to admit. "(The Democrats, you may recall, had their own embarrassing flap over their snookering of African-American church leaders.)" Please enlighten us, if you can. Democrats are only guilty of taking for granted the Black community's support. Democrats usually go out of their way to acommodate the Black community's concerns and curry favor with Black leaders It's rather the GOP that uses Dems support for Blacks as a wedge issue to generate fear and loathing amongst nacent racist elements in the Red State to get elected. If Dems tried to advance more than a few Black leaders into high profile positions, then GOP swiftboat squads would make hay with the fears and hate of conservatives towards Blacks. I think it is the GOP that is cynically trying to "convert" Black clergy to abandon the Dems on pseudo-values issues at the expense of economic or equality issues of which the GOP would be loathed to make concession to Blacks. Tell me Dougie, how many Black GOP members of the House or Senate are there?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 ElKay may have gone over the top in places in style, but most of the substance was right on the money, particularly near the top.
