Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...909.html</a> If the situation was reversed, if a white teen were gunned down by a black man in a well-off neighborhood, something tells me the man would've been arrested instantly. I most certainly don't believe all gun owners, or even most, are crackpots. But I do think there are millions of Americans with concealed weapons who go through life with this fantasy lodged firmly in their head that they're going to stop a crime and be the big hero. This scenario seems to fit the bill.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I've been following this. The block watch guy should have been arrested on the spot at the very least. But, hey, Florida.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Zimmerman needs to be arrested and held without bail, then tried for second degree murder, minimum. This is a cover-up, pure and simple. And I hope the leaders of Sanford who've allowed Zimmerman to skate this long (why were his 2005 charges dropped?) are fully held accountable and kicked out of City Hall. Absolutely criminal.
Originally Posted By mele I read about this story a few days ago when the 911 recordings were unreleased. Hearing them now makes it pretty obvious that Zimmerman completely provoked this situation. What a piece of crap. Amazingly, a lot of people believe that racism is a thing of the past. Yeah.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I read about this and thought "Why in the world wasn't this guy arrested?" Then I thought "Well... as written, the story makes me think this guy should have been arrested on the spot, but maybe it was just some horrible confusing situation or something... sure would like to hear the 911 call..." Now I've heard the 911 call. And I'm thinking: "Why in the world wasn't this guy arrested?" And he STILL hasn't been arrested?? What exactly do you have to DO to get arrested in this town?
Originally Posted By Lisann22 This is getting big play here in ATL because I swear we have crimes like this constantly, maybe not a shooting but a beat down, harassment, etc. I'm becoming even more cynical each day I live here cause the minute the folks are interviewed on TV, just by looks, I'm already rolling my eyes. But nah, race got nothing to do with it.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Zimmerman needs to be arrested and held without bail, then tried for second degree murder, minimum. >>> It's kind of a side issue to this whole thread, but this sort of thing bugs me: Why should he be held "without bail?" Everyone is entitled to bail, unless there is something specific to the case that would argue against it (such as the suspect skipping bail in the past, being someone with ties in another nation likely to flee, etc). Zimmerman has apparently been living a normal life since this incident for the past 7 years - why if he is charged in this case should he be denied bail? The severity of the crime alone doesn't really matter.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The severity of the crime alone doesn't really matter.<< Really? (As in, "really?" I didn't know that, not "really?" I'm taking issue with you.) I'm so accustomed to watching fictional accounts of trials on TV where the severity of the crime is directly proportional to if bail is available...is this a legal myth?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Murder suspects do generally get bail if they're not considered a flight risk. So SD is right about the "without bail" being over the top, but the guy hasn't even been ARRESTED yet.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Zimmerman has apparently been living a normal life since this incident for the past 7 years - why if he is charged in this case should he be denied bail?>> Read the article more closely, for that is not true. He was "arrested in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer." And regarding this case, Zimmerman defied the police who ordered him to stay put. Both instances demonstrate obvious lack of respect for the law. He should not be allowed to roam freely before trial.
Originally Posted By mele It sounds like people in Zimmerman's neighborhood have noticed his "zeal" for his self-appointed neighborhood watch status. Others noticed that his behavior was escalating.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I'm so accustomed to watching fictional accounts of trials on TV where the severity of the crime is directly proportional to if bail is available...is this a legal myth? >>> Certainly, the AMOUNT of the bail is proprotional to the severity of the crime, as it is to the means of the accused. An interesting aspect of this case is that there's little doubt as to whether the guy "did it", there's apparently a huge question as to whether "it" is even illegal. The authorities apparently think this in question enough that they haven't charged or even arrested the guy. Note that I'm not saying that *I* think no crime has been committed. But if the system as a whole is this unsure, and the guy eventually does get charged, arrested, and stands trial, the issues of whether a crime was committed at all will no doubt be a central focus of the trial. That's precisely the situation where bail would be most applicable: to prevent someone accused of something that ends up being adjudicated as not being illegal having to spend time in jail while that determination is made.
Originally Posted By dshyates I was at the press conference with the eyewitness and boys family. It was a tough one to cover. Sanford PD and the city in general are having a bad year. They made national news not long ago when a Sanford PD officer's son assulted an elderly homeless guy.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Here is a short, concise listing of the pertinent facts in this case: <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/" target="_blank">http://thinkprogress.org/justi...95-2012/</a> <> What Everyone Should Know About About Trayvon Martin (1995-2012) By Judd Legum on Mar 18, 2012 at 6:19 pm On February 26, 2012, a 17-year-old African-American named Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in Sanford, Florida. The shooter was George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old white man. Zimmerman admits killing Martin, but claims he was acting in self-defense. Three weeks after Martin’s death, no arrests have been made and Zimmerman remains free. Here is what everyone should know about the case: 1. Zimmerman called the police to report Martin’s “suspicious” behavior, which he described as “just walking around looking about.” Zimmerman was in his car when he saw Martin walking on the street. He called the police and said: “There’s a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about… These a**holes always get away” [Orlando Sentinel] 2. Zimmerman pursued Martin against the explicit instructions of the police dispatcher: Dispatcher: “Are you following him?” Zimmerman: “Yeah” Dispatcher: “OK, we don’t need you to do that.” [Orlando Sentinel] 3. Prior to the release of the 911 tapes, Zimmerman’s father released a statement claiming “[a]t no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.” [Sun Sentinel] 4. Zimmerman was carrying a a 9 millimeter handgun. Martin was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. [ABC News] 5. Martin weighed 140 pounds. Zimmerman weighs 250 pounds. [Orlando Sentinel; WDBO] 6. Martin’s English teacher described him as “as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.” [Orlando Sentinel] 7. Martin had no criminal record. [New York Times] 8. Zimmerman “was charged in July 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery on an officer. The charges appear to have been dropped.” [Huffington Post] 9. Zimmerman called the police 46 times since Jan. 1, 2011. [Miami Herald] 10. According to neighbors, Zimmerman was “fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.” [Miami Herald] 11. Zimmerman “had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics” [Huffington Post] 12. A police officer “corrected” a key witness. “The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.” [ABC News] 13. Three witnesses say they heard a boy cry for help before a shot was fired. “Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager’s killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy.” [Miami Herald] 14. The officer in charge of the crime scene also recieved criticism in 2010 when he initially failed to arrest a lietenant’s son who was videotaped attacking a homeless black man. [New York Times] The Martin case had been turned over to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office. Martin’s family has asked for the FBI to investigate. <> Why on earth isn't Zimmerman being arrested? Numerous complaints have been made about Zimmerman by residents in his gated community before this shooting, and yet the Sanford PD continues to do absolutely nothing about it. And they dropped the charges against Zimmerman after he violently resisted arrest in which he assaulted an officer in 2005? What for? And a police officer 'corrects' a witness by telling her that Zimmerman was the person calling out for help and not the teenaged boy? Again, why is the officer sticking up for Zimmerman? Also, the officer in charge at the scene of this shooting failed to arrest his lieutenant's son for attacking a homeless black man that was captured on video. Again, why the cover-up? Sounds to me like the Sanford PD needs a full investigation of their own. I hope the Martin family's wishes are granted, and the FBI steps in to investigate the obvious racism running through this police department as well as this shooting.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Sounds to me like the Dept of Justice and the FBI need to take over the case.
Originally Posted By Donny Is Hispanic now considered white ?Because Zimmerman is Hispanic but I guess it hurts the morons case of racism if they do any real research.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Hispanic isn't a race, it simply means someone who comes from a Spanish-speaking country. They can be of any racial group. As the 2000 Census said, as cited in Wikipedia: "The terms "Hispanic" or "Latino" refer to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Spanish speaking Central and South America countries, and other Spanish cultures. Origin can be considered as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States. People who identify their origin as Hispanic or Latino may be of any race."
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Oh, and it is entirely possible for the son of a white and Latino parent to be racist against black people, Donny.
Originally Posted By Donny You know the assumption is when they say white and it's not George Zimmerman <a href="http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/George-Zimmerman-mugshot.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.dominionofnewyork.c...shot.jpg</a>
