Originally Posted By chickendumpling If this topic has been talked to death, my apologies and point me to the thread because I'd like to see what folks said about it. Otherwise, I found this link and thought it interesting so thought I'd share. <a href="http://decision.healthcare.com/obama-mccain/index.php" target="_blank">http://decision.healthcare.com...ndex.php</a> And another interesting article: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/54yh5p" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/54yh5p</a> I have to admit I hadn't looked into this really all that much and was kinda surprised by what I found: "McCain's proposal relies on the private market to heal the ailing system. He proposes eliminating tax breaks employers enjoy for subsidizing health insurance, thereby treating the benefit as a taxable wage, and offering tax credits - up to $2,500 for an individual and $5,000 per family - to help people buy their own policies in the open market." (Taxable wage? Seriously?) "Obama's remedy would build on the current system, requiring employers to provide "meaningful" coverage or contribute to a new public plan. Unlike a pure single-payer or government-run program, the public plan would give people guaranteed access to a mix of government and private plans with benefits similar to those available to federal workers." "McCain's plan would create a far more dramatic change in how we get and pay for our health care than Obama's proposal, which could leave the current employer system intact for many workers. That's because McCain's plan gives employers a huge incentive to drop coverage by eliminating tax breaks for those benefits." "McCain's plan would allow consumers to buy coverage across state lines, which could broaden the options but weaken coverage." "After McCain realized his health history would make him ineligible for his own health proposal, he added a fix: guaranteed-access high-risk pools. Available in 34 states, including California, these little-known programs serve as the coverage of last resort for people who don't have access to group coverage and whose medical backgrounds make them uninsurable in the individual markets. "The pools are funded primarily by assessments on insurers, but many of the 34 states still lack adequate funding and have had to restrict access with waiting lists, rules and coverage limits. It's unclear whether McCain's proposal to work with states to create federally funded high-risk pools will fix those shortcomings. " " Obama's plan has been criticized for trying to offer too much at too high a cost. Some experts contend that his promise to lower health premiums by $2,500 for the typical family is difficult to support and that he's weak on how his proposal would be financed." "The Democratic candidate's plan requires that all children have health coverage, extending tax-funded children's health-insurance programs to cover those who don't have access to private coverage. In addition to offering a mix of public and private options, Obama's plan also prohibits insurers from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. " "But scholars and health experts agree Obama is taking bigger strides than McCain to address the problem of the uninsured. Obama's proposal could reduce the number of uninsured by 18 million at the start of the policyand by as much as 34 million over 10 years, according to Tax Policy Center projections." "The Kaiser Family Foundation's Altman said Americans are better served looking at the philosophies of the proposals rather than the details, many of which will never see the light of day. That's because members of Congress would still have to turn the proposals into legislation, and the country is deeply divided over how to reform health care. "You can be sure neither plan will ever be enacted into law," Altman said." So is that it? Is health care a non-issue for you because "neither plan will ever be enacted"?
Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP I have this dream in my head that there is some perfect universal, single payer system out there, we just have to find it. (Like El Dorado *grin*) One of the reasons I've been leaning Obama is the fact that I think he's going to be more open to some sort of universal health care. However, I am realistic. In the next 4 years, at least, the best we can hope for is to expand/reform Medicare and S-Chip. (s-chip is the program that gives poor and lower middle class children health care.) In fact, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to find someway to properly pay for Medicare alone. Right now it's racking up more debt year over year. My mom is an RN in a cancer clinic. According to her getting anything approved or paid for from Medi-Cal (our state program) is like getting blood from a stone, while on the other hand Medi-Care is the easiest of all the insurance companies to deal with. They approve just about everything lickity-split. Because of those easy aprovals Medi-Care is RIFE with corruption. Lots of false billing or padding the bills for wheelchairs, mobility aides, insulin, and lots more. So, while I think implimenting universal, single payer health care is like finding El Dorado. Simply cleaning up Medicare, making it efficient, and figuring out a way to TRUELY pay for, it is going to be as hard climbing Everest.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<to help people buy their own policies in the open market>> Good luck if you have any kind of pre-existing condition. If you have ever been under the knife (say an appendectomy), have hypertension, diabetes, etc., no one will insure you, period. They only want young people in perfect health.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Obama's remedy would build on the current system, requiring employers to provide "meaningful" coverage or contribute to a new public plan.>> I have read articles where employers say they prefer this. I suspect that many will simply cancel their group plans and pay the tax instead.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling I lost this thread for a while. Sorry 'bout that. It seems to have picked up more interest lately and I imagine come Tuesday there'll be questions about it. Should be interesting. I agree with all the things you guys have said. This is such a huge issue. I've had to change my health care plan every year for the past 3 years just to try to keep up with changes my employer has had to make to keep up with costs. I have two little kids. Health care is a big deal. IF my employer keeps offering me health benefits, McCain will tax that as income to me but give me $5000 to offset it, right? Will that be enough? That'll depend on my tax bracket, right? IF my employer stops offering me health care or I lose my job because of the economy, I'll get a $5000 tax credit so I can go buy a policy myself. But what is $5000 gonna buy me in the marketplace of this economy? What kind of coverage is that going to get my family? And this topic doesn't even begin to touch Social Security or Medicare benefits. I really worry about my grandparents.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling I did find a DIY tool that I thought I'd share fwiw: <a href="http://www.health08.org/healthissues_sidebyside.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.health08.org/health...side.cfm</a>
Originally Posted By chickendumpling I should qualify that DIY tool by saying I don't know how up-to-date it is in terms of the candidates' policy positions.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Good luck if you have any kind of pre-existing condition. If you have ever been under the knife (say an appendectomy), have hypertension, diabetes, etc., no one will insure you, period. They only want young people in perfect health.< I just helped my recent college grad daughter get her own policy - 24 / athlete - as healthy as canbe....( I couldn't afford $500 COBRA any more) - and I have to tell you,I don't think the insurance companies want anyone any more - even young/healthy people. Took forever for approval - and because she is a female ( and 'can' get pregnant) - brutally expensive with high deductibles which mean youpay forthe first $1500 on topof the month bill. All it becomes is catastrophic insurance..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 coverage for female doubles if you want pregnancy coverage....oh and also no prescription coverage -- for a deductible around $500 ( which is a lot of money for a recent grad ) - AND prescription coverage ( mind you not free prescriptions but reasonable costs ) - & coverage for pregnancy( just in case- even ifjust for the mother - not covering the child ) - we're talking $400- $450/month. And this is for 24 years old and perfectly healthy,no pre exisiting conditions of any kind -non smoker - And they wonder why people don't have insurance. Almost none of her friends still in school have insurance
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < But what is $5000 gonna buy me in the marketplace of this economy? What kind of coverage is that going to get my family? < about 3 - 4 months worth of average coverage.... that's likemy company now- 8 yearsago when they stole our pensions and turned them to cash accumulation funds - they alsonotified us that retiring after 20 years no longer gave you company assisted ( I did not say paid for) medical coverage - that they created a 'funbd' for that also - but it was capped at $30K. Well when one retires atsay 62 or 65 - and youthen have to shop for health insurance - that means you're fine as long as you die a few years later
Originally Posted By Mr X That makes me really appreciate living in Japan. The healthcare here is not the greatest but we're covered and it's the same for everyone, so what good is having the greatest healthcare if nobody can afford it!?
Originally Posted By fkurucz Well, that would be socialism, and as we all know in the USA socialism is only for the rich, not for everyone else. And besides that, if we had a national system to keep costs in check, why we would be taking bread out of CEO's family mouths. Hey, as long as the rich can afford healthcare, there isn't a problem, right? We are all pretty much just a layoff away from the community free clinic. Move over illegal immigrants, here comes the US middle class to compete with you for healthcare charity.
