Originally Posted By utahjosh I just like the name battleground. I wanted to post my feelings about partisanship and fighting and ethics and hypocritical behavior on all sides of the political universe. I'm just tired of it. And I've even been a part of it once in a while. But I really am just bored with it. I'm just so tired of hearing the same stuff again and again from the liberals and the conservatives about how each is correct and the other is wrong. I don't know what's worse: the talking heads on TV or the headless talkers on discussion boards. It too often boils down to "I'm right!" "No, you're not" "Yes I am!" and then mean-spirited comments. I'm to the point that I just don't want to pay attention to politics at all anymore. Especially online. Your thoughts?
Originally Posted By Elderp I believe as we leave partisan politics behind we will be a better country.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I think it's important stuff, reading about politics and policy and then hashing it out. It's the whole point of "by the people, of the people, for the people". We spend a lot of time and energy in this country on following sports, celebrity news, and other diversions. While it may get heated at times and seem pointless, I think the back and forth debates and arguments do, at times, help to illuminate the issues. Too many people, in my opinion, don't follow what the government and politicians are up to with the same amount of energy they do less important matters. So you won't hear me ever being in favor of "tuning it all out" though I understand the frustration from which that feeling stems.
Originally Posted By DAR Funny josh I was just going to post something similar. It's gotten particularly ugly. It seems that we just can't disagree with each other. We have to somehow attack the person we disagree with Something that I will fully own up to doing myself. I originally came to this site discuss various things Disney and maybe a few things outside of the Mouse. Lately my time has been spent here. I don't like what I've become by posting here. I have my beliefs. You all know them. I won't apologize for what I believe and neither should any of you for what yours are. It'll be a good election. I think the country will be okay no matter who wins. We're America we always find a way to bounce back. But now it's time to get back to the reason I came here in the first place. So if you want to talk with me I'll be around but this little corner to me is closed.
Originally Posted By mawnck But seriously - I think we're here because we're interested in politics, and in particular the direction our country is headed. Hanging out here sharpens my ability to defend my position, and makes me think about things I hadn't thunk before. (And then I sit, and think some more.) There really are only a couple of "headless talkers" on here, and I've been campaigning for my fellow left-of-centers to stop cluttering up the boards with pointless responses to them. If they're not going to contribute, then don't engage with them, says I. I admit my campaign hasn't been terribly successful. But I believe in a place called Hope.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>So if you want to talk with me I'll be around but this little corner to me is closed.<< PLEASE don't go. We need conservatives with substance around here.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I can understand DAR wanting to stay out. I usually stay out, especially of politics. I'm just not that interested in debating them.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney <<<I'm to the point that I just don't want to pay attention to politics at all anymore. Especially online.>>> I think if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. If you don't like how you or others act in the political discussions, then don't engage in them. It's pretty easy to avoid them, and once you are in them, very hard to stay out. So maybe avoid World Events all together if you aren't happy there.
Originally Posted By ecdc Loved posts 4 and 5 (though I don't want DAR to leave WEs either). While I agree that the demonizing and the rancor gets old and even exhausting, I think it's a plus that some of us are still passionate about politics. I will never, ever forget watching the documentary Baghdad, ER on HBO. From that moment on, I was a changed American. It's one of those visceral moments that got to me. I suspect most of you could watch it and not have the reaction I did. But as I watched American doctors casually amputate soldiers arms and legs and throw them in hefty bags, I knew I'd be angry and devastated for a long, long time. It's where some of my more heated posts come from. For me, this isn't about needing to score points off an opponent online to get my jollies, and it's not about boosting a low self-esteem by having to always be right. This comes from a love of country and feeling betrayed. When I was in high school, my room didn't have posters of Michael Jordan or Karl Malone. I had American flags, replicas of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence taped to my wall. My bed spread was of an American flag. (Can you say NERD!?!) I've always been fascinated by civics and politics. I've always felt patriotic, and I've been terribly saddened as I've felt that love drain away the last 5 years or so. I am angry. And I wish more Americans were angry. We can disagree on how best to fix the economy, or lower gas prices, or fix schools. But my god, how can we disagree on torture, on starting an unjustified war, on trampling the Constitution. How did we get to the point where those who are supposedly the most patriotic are the least respectful to the tenets of this great nation? How did we get to the point where people who were the most willing to label themselves "Christian" are the ones most willing to defend torture, war, and violence. These are things that are supposed to transcend political parties. Instead, my country's a backwards place. I'm ashamed and embarrassed, and it's a terrible feeling. So for some of us, that's where the anger and the passion comes from this election cycle. I feel like I'm trying to reclaim some of what I've lost over the last 5 years - pride, love of country, and a feeling that America is the greatest again.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I think the heated rhetoric comes from impatience. There's nothing more important right now than the direction our leadership takes us as a nation going forward. Many people want to see policy and law shaped by their own christian beliefs - in fact that seems to be a central tenet of the republican party. These so called 'social issues' such as abortion and gay marriage should be peripheral to the larger debate, but many people put them front and center. These people want to prohibit both. They want to foster ignorance with 'abstinence only' programs. They want prayer in school. They want to deny science because it conflicts with bible teachings. And they take exception to being reminded that their beliefs are actually un-american. They don't care - they think it's easier to change the constitution than their own mind. Meanwhile, our government is being methodically and deliberately corrupted by the same charlatans who profess to love jesus and represent these people's interests. Examples of hypocrisy abound in this "party of family values". We've got preachers with gay hustlers and meth, senators diddling other guys in airport restrooms or cavorting with prostitutes, governors with prostitutes, and now the latest hero of the right with a underage daughter 'in trouble'. All of this is conveniently swept under their mental rug while they continue to profess support for backwards policy, mostly motivated by fear. This needs to be opposed. Josh - YOU'RE church, the group that you represent, are currently flooding money and resources from utah into MY state - california - in support of a local political measure to rescind rights to californians. And I'm sure you think that's just fine. Well it's not. You can't very well participate in suppression of people and civil rights and support regressive policies of division, and then say "I'm tired of all the 'right and wrong' talk". You're on the wrong side of a lot of important issues and your only reason is because your church and your religion have already made every choice for you, on every issue. Closing yourself off to the debate may be tempting, and that's what your church would want you to do. Don't question anything they say, just accept it and write them another check. And you're right about one thing - this particular board has a lot of "did not/did to" dialog on it. Not to point fingers, but take a look at who's being dismissive of supported facts. In the end, you've got a choice. You can vote for the guy your church says to vote for, because of gays and abortion. You probably already know already that this particular GOP candidate has lukewarm support from the party because he's not a firebrand on either topic. But he knows which side of the bread to butter to get into office. Or - you can consider the alternative. The "post-partisan" candidate who hasn't had a bad word to say about his opponent in this entire election campaign. It's just a question of what's more important to you - personal integrity or doing what your church tells you to.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Thanks, gadzuux, for emphasizing why I don't want to be here. You just come and ATTACK me and my beliefs (or what you THINK are my beliefs) on a thread I created hoping to bring people TOGETHER and foster PEACE. It's EXACTLY why I posted what I did in post #1.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Gee - I went to some time and trouble to respond to your OP, and you think I "attacked" you. Just because I am opposed to your politics - and say so - doesn't make an attack.
Originally Posted By ecdc Josh, I know gad is impassioned in his posts, but I didn't see it as an attack. Honestly.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I just like the name battleground.*** I like theonion.com catchphrase... WAR for the WHITE HOUSE (complete with screaming jets hurling bombs over Pennsylvania Avenue)
Originally Posted By Mr X I hope you don't leave, Dar (or Josh too for that matter)..as much as we do disagree. I think you at least attempt to have a real conversation, and that's refreshing compared to some on here (and I think we all know how frustrating they can be). Anyway, I sort of agree with you Josh but on the other hand you know the old saying about religion and politics...WorldEvents pretty much proves that old chestnut right on a daily basis!
Originally Posted By Mr X Post 12 really bums me out. I could really feel that Gad was trying hard to put things in a rational way, though he did feel anger, but at the same time trying to be open and honest with his sincere beliefs. The fact that you take that as an affront and snap back is really uncool Josh. I honestly think you should re-read and maybe even re-think some of the things said there, because they are very stark but ring true to me anyway (I think they might for you if you go in with a completely open mind instead of automatically getting offended and lashing out). And while reading, remember that Gad (and others) have a right to THEIR negative emotions on these issues just as you have the right to yours. You don't own a majority share of Rightous Indignation Inc., in other words.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Part of my 'presumption' is that josh has participated in numerous threads as a representative of the LDS church. So I don't feel it's unfair to point out specific actions and policies they've taken and why I take exception to them. Also - rereading my previous post I should add that my reference to choosing "personal integrity" is a reference to the democratic candidate over the GOP candidate - NOT to josh himself. That could have been clearer.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Josh, I know gad is impassioned in his posts, but I didn't see it as an attack. Honestly.<< Thirded. If you can't take the heat, then perhaps you should stay out of the kitchen (and maybe a bit of rethinking the recipe is in order as well). However, it's far better, IMHO, to learn to take the heat. Especially if you care how the chowder is going to come out. The GOP is taking a major drubbing in WE since Friday, but it's not because anybody hates their guts (well, for the most part) - it's because their VP candidate has a majority of us flabbergasted. I find that it helps to be able to do two things: When your guys do something stupid, don't hesitate to join the howls of derision. and If your guys aren't doing something stupid, use the opportunity to solidify and sharpen your stance. And one more thing - don't take stuff personal. Just consider it excessive feistyness on the part of your opponents.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Many people want to see policy and law shaped by their own christian beliefs - in fact that seems to be a central tenet of the republican party. These so called 'social issues' such as abortion and gay marriage should be peripheral to the larger debate, but many people put them front and center.<< I just watched about as much as I could stand of President Bush's speech tonight (I will watch all of McCain's speech, as I believe both candidates deserve that courtesy from Americans). In it Bush said that "John McCain understands that life is precious and that life needs to be protected." Talk about not-so-subtle code. Talk about pandering to an issue that will never change. And. Oh. My. Hell! This couldn't be a more perfect example of what gad and I were talking about why we're frustrated. Here we have a man who started an unnecessary war that's killed thousands of Americans and countless Iraqis, preaching to us that life is precious. Why is it that the only lives this man seems to care about is the microscopic kind? BTW, Bush got a standing ovation and a huge welcome. Is it any wonder some of us are done with the GOP until it changes? I'm really not trying to derail your thread, Josh. You asked our thoughts, and this is why some of us stay in political discussions when others get fed up with it. Bush provided us with a perfect example. The answer is, I want my country back from backwards, screwed up people like him and their bizarro world definitions of "life."
