Originally Posted By RoadTrip And some here wonder why I think Michael Brown wasn't treated all that unusually and it wasn't necessarily racially motivated. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ozarksfirst.com/story/d/story/school-switches-blind-boys-cane-with-pool-noodle/12121/LheaetoIWku7Uzo89gc0zQ">http://www.ozarksfirst.com/sto...o89gc0zQ</a> This state specializes in punishment that far exceeds the offense...
Originally Posted By Yookeroo Because a blind kid gets his cane replaced with a pool noodle by school official, this proves that the cops aren't racist? Seriously?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip No, it just show the insane length folks in Missouri will go to to punish those they feel are behaving improperly. Sure, reprimand the kid.... call his parents... give him in-school detention, whatever. But take away hes "eyes"? That is insane. And no, that does not prove the cop was not racist (though there was nothing on his record to indicate he was). it just shows that people with any type of authority in Missouri tend to treat people like crap. I've seen it many times during my five years here. P.S. I'm not talking about the shooting... that event escalated and got out of control. I'm talking about the original "Get the eff on the sidewalk" command given to Brown. I didn't find that was unusual at all for Missouri, or necessarily racially based.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip You've never lived here. Respectfully, how the hell would you know? Even moving from another Midwest state, Minnesota, I experienced total culture shock when I came here.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Respectfully, how the hell would you know?" Because the racism among the police seems to be a national problem. And, quite frankly, a weird school punishment anecdote isn't really all that convincing that racism isn't in issue with Missouri law enforcement. Maybe if you could argue that Missouri ranks low on the racist scale...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm not even going to argue that Missouri is low on the racist scale because I kind of doubt it is. What I am arguing, and it is probably hard to understand unless you've lived with it, is that cops here treat EVERYONE like crap. I'm going to copy a post from a local SW Missouri bulletin board that I visit. Keep in mind that the poster is one of the more conservative people at a site that is heavily conservative. <<The police in Springfield seem to just absolutely not give a damn about anybody. They won't show up unless they legally have no choice. I have a cell phone video I took of a cop here in Springfield driving down Glenstone, driving with his knees and texting with both hands ( I was a passenger when I shot it, not a driver). 13 houses were vandalized and the cars broken into on my street one morning 3 years ago. At 7:50 a.m. the police were called. They told everyone to file a report by phone because they didn't have time to fool with it. 10 minutes later I was in a coffee shop getting a coffee. 9 police were sitting in there together ( 7 uniform, 2 plain clothes) laughing it up and enjoying their breakfast and coffee. Their cruisers were all parked outside running. I asked if they were on duty and they reluctantly said yes. A year later, 4 kids exploded a homemade bomb outside my apartment powerful enough that it set off over 30 car alarms and blew the windows out of 5 of those cars. One of my neighbors called the police. 20 minutes later a single officer drove by, shined his search light down the lot and then drove off. That was the beginning and the end of the police's interest the incident. Police cars race through Springfield daily, driving 50 on the major streets (yes I've followed them and clocked them), whipping across lanes with no signaling, only to pull into a gas station to go get something to drink. I was in the court house with a friend that had a hearing there 2 years ago. In the hallway I listened to 3 officers, in full voice and earshot of anyone around laughing about how much fun they had beating the crap out of a guy they arrested and then they discussed what story they were going to come up with to make sure they were able to portray him as "resisting arrest". I witness this stuff daily. I pay a lot of attention to this because it annoys me greatly that these rude, self righteous asses get wouldn't get off their asses to help unless they would endanger their jobs from not doing so. Their are indeed good cops. They are a rare breed and hard to find in this town.>> The first line said it all. THE POLICE IN SPRINGFIELD SEEM TO JUST ABSOLUTELY NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT ANYBODY. So yes, they treat Black people like crap (the very few that live there), but they treat everyone else like crap too.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I don't think racism is greater among police than any other group, really. It's just more noticeable when they are in positions of power and in groups of "mostly" white men. Frankly, I don't think racism will ever go away. Humans are a tribal people. We group up. We pick teams. We support "our own." Things will get better and better (as they have), but racism will never truly go away on earth as we know it.
Originally Posted By ecdc "They treat everybody like crap" and "cops are a microcosm of our national race problem" are not mutually exclusive. The focus has been on cops because, as authority figures with actual power, they are one of the most visible examples of America's race problem. But cops are part of a government and culture that is deeply racist, which is why we keep seeing example after example of black men killed by the cops. The "Missouri cops are just kinda jerk faces" isn't exactly a solid rebuttal to the broad national issue.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip True... I just get tired of MO being labeled as some backwards Neanderthal racist place by folks living on the enlightened West Coast. Especially when San Francisco is WORSE than Ferguson... believe it or not. <<Police in Ferguson — which erupted into days of racially charged unrest after a white officer killed an unarmed black teen — arrest black people at a rate nearly three times higher than people of other races. At least 1,581 other police departments across the USA arrest black people at rates even more skewed than in Ferguson, a USA TODAY analysis of arrest records shows. That includes departments in cities as large and diverse as Chicago and San Francisco and in the suburbs that encircle St. Louis, New York and Detroit.>> Source: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/">http://www.usatoday.com/story/...9043207/</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>by folks living on the enlightened West Coast<< You know, you seem very concerned about how the west coast, and San Francisco in particular, views Missouri. Why do you care so much what the west coast things of the place? You add little potshots like "the enlightened" west coast, which suggests that you have some stereotypical views of Californians as well. Living in the bay area my whole life, I can tell you first had that there are all kinds of people here, with all kinds of political views. This constant drumbeat about the snooty SF attitude is no better than someone here blowing off the whole state of MO as a bunch of useless hicks. I mean, really, I don't know how SF came into this thread or what it even has to do with your opening thesis.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Arrest Disproportion Rates Ferguson, MO 2.82-1 Jefferson City, MO 3.41-1 Kansas City, MO 3.24-1 St. Louis, MO 3.45-1 Los Angeles, CA 3.54-1 Sacramento, CA 3.89-1 San Diego, CA 4.13-1 San Francisco, CA 10.87-1 Minneapolis, MN 6.51-1 Portland, OR 4.09-1 If you don't include that bastion of racism, San Francisco; MO and CA rates are really quite similar. Source: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.gannett-cdn.com/experiments/usatoday/2014/11/arrests-interactive/">http://www.gannett-cdn.com/exp...ractive/</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<You know, you seem very concerned about how the west coast, and San Francisco in particular, views Missouri. Why do you care so much what the west coast things of the place? You add little potshots like "the enlightened" west coast, which suggests that you have some stereotypical views of Californians as well.>> Oh come now, who has taken more potshots about how backwards and racist Missouri is than anyone else? Skinnerbox. Where does she live? San Francisco. I don't like hypocrisy much and it seems to me she is full of it. Sure, Missouri has its problems. Every place does. But Missouri is NOT populated by unintelligent, uneducated racists as skinner has claimed.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I mean, really, I don't know how SF came into this thread or what it even has to do with your opening thesis.>> It was probably a preemptive strike against me. RT has done that before. In case anyone cares, I haven't posted in a while, including in this thread. But if the expectation is one of me slamming Missouri for no apparent reason, other than my long-time residence in San Francisco... then let me leave you with this: www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/17/1352459/-Missouri-GOP-lawmaker-wants-to-require-women-to-get-their-abuser-s-permission-for-abortion <> Hi there, patriarchy! Women in Missouri could soon have to get permission from their sexual partners in order to get an abortion, if state Rep. Rick Brattin gets his way. Brattin has filed a bill saying that "No abortion shall be performed or induced unless and until the father of the unborn child provides written, notarized consent to the abortion." Asked about an exception for rape or incest, Brattin fell back on a classic: "Just like any rape, you have to report it, and you have to prove it," Brattin tells Mother Jones. "So you couldn't just go and say, 'Oh yeah, I was raped,' and get an abortion. It has to be a legitimate rape." Beg pardon? Did he just say ... ? Oh, don't worry, he assures us he's no Todd Akin: "I'm just saying if there was a legitimate rape, you're going to make a police report, just as if you were robbed," Brattin says. "That's just common sense." Under his bill, he adds, "you have to take steps to show that you were raped…And I'd think you'd be able to prove that." The bill contains no provision establishing standards for claiming the rape or incest exceptions. It also doesn't state any specific penalties for violating the law nor say whether a penalty would be imposed on the woman seeking the abortion or the abortion provider. Oh, well then. He's not saying, like Akin, that it's impossible for rape to lead to pregnancy, he's just saying that if it does, you'd better have evidence your friendly local police officer accepts as proof. Common sense, he says, because it's not like the way rape victims are treated is any kind of barrier to reporting. And Brattin's explanation for why it makes sense to exclude abuse victims from the rape or incest exception does not build confidence in the sensitivity he's likely to exhibit in setting up the specifics of how women can invoke the rape or incest exceptions. In abuse cases, "What does that have to do with the child's life? Just because it was an abusive relationship, does that mean the child should die?" Hey, asshole: Abusive relationships often involve rape. Abuse often intensifies during pregnancy. You're really saying a woman should be forced into a choice between asking her abuser for his signature giving away control over her body or being locked into a long-term relationship as parents of a child? Never mind. Of course he's saying that! Because of course a fetus is more important to this asshole than the health and safety of a woman is, let alone a woman's right to control her own body. This man is evil. <> Good enough reason to find major fault with this state. Or at least the citizens who voted for this effn dipshyte politician.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip He's proposed a bill. Lots of bills get proposed that are never put into law. It happens in CA too. I'm sure if I wanted to take the time to search I could find all kinds of bizarre bills that are introduced in the CA legislature too. It does not mean all in CA support them, just as all in MO do not support the bill you just mentioned. You saw how far it got Tod Aiken... he lost an election that everyone had previously considered a "gimme" for the Republicans. You constantly discount those living in the Midwest and make it very clear that you consider them to be inferior to yourself. So right back at you. I don't think Bay area residents are inferior at all. But I think at least some of them hold an extremely high opinion of themselves compared to the rest of the country and are pretty big hypocrites.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I don't like hypocrisy much and it seems to me she is full of it.>> Up until a few minutes ago, I hadn't posted yet in this thread. I've kept my nose out of this but you dragged me into it, anyway. And didn't you accuse me of doing the EXACT SAME THING to Josh in a different thread? One he wasn't participating in? Yes, you did. Very clearly. So I'm the hypocrite? Unbelievable.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox WHAT THE F IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH ME, RT? Why are going after me like this? Why are you hating on San Francisco and California, all of a sudden? I haven't been posting for a while because 'real life' has kept me very busy. I didn't post until you dragged me into the thread by insulting me and calling me a hypocrite. And I posted that article about dipshyte because it was the most recent thing I had read about Missouri, and I wanted to stay relevant about political garbage in your state. I apologized for going after Josh because of my displeasure with politically conservative Mormons who lie. I was wrong for dragging him into a thread that he wasn't participating in. You called me out for that and you were correct in doing so. It was not cool for me to behave that way towards another poster. So where do you get off in doing the same thing to me? And continuing this bellicose diatribe against me and my city and state? Seriously. Lighten up before you blow an artery.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I know you haven't posted recently or in this thread. And I certainly hadn't mentioned you or had any intention of doing so until 2oony asked point blank why I seemed to have this interest in the West Coast. At times I am more honest than it is wise to be, so I told him why. I should have copped out and come up with some bs about how it is just natural since so many LP'ers live on the West coast.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I shouldn't have singled you out skinner. It is just hard at times for those of us here in flyover land. Although it is certainly not ALL people; as has been discussed in another thread, people living in SF, LA and NYC frequently do think they are the center of the universe. And at times it shows in how people in the Midwest are viewed and treated. After awhile it gets under your skin. All the hotshots and news media fly out from the coasts to document how horrible Missouri is, then fly back when the burning is done, leaving us to deal with the resulting mess. Yea, I start to resent that bs after awhile. But it is not your fault and I shouldn't have mentioned you.
