Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/09/security.letters/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03 /09/security.letters/index.html</a> What a surprise. As if we didn't know. It's SOP. However, this certainly takes the wind out of the sails of those who have defended the Patriot Act as saying the government would only behave according to its terms. So many bad things suspected of this Administration are coming out to be true. Unfortunately for the country, post 2008 election, Watergate type hearings and investigations most likely will be the order of the day. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn the buck stops with Cheney most of the time, because they all figured Bush "couldn't be bothered" (read too simple and stupid). If Cheney's lucky his heart gets him before justice does.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "One official who saw the audit said it describes finding "errors in the process, not gross violations of the law." He said it seemed to him to be a "failure in the oversight process to keep up with an increase in the volume of NSLs," or national security letters." And Watergate was first passed off as a third rate burglary.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>And Watergate was first passed off as a third rate burglary.<< Hey, Whitewater is still passed off as nothing more than a failed land deal. Partisan Republicans all claimed that once Clinton was out of office there would be massive investigations and hearings and convictions for the various scandals that plagued that administration. We are hearing the same thing now that Bush's term is winding down. I will be surprised if there is any real political will to go after these people once they are out of office. That said, there's a few points in the article that bear repeating: >>The FBI is guilty of "serious misuse" of the power to secretly obtain private information under the Patriot Act, a government audit said Friday... Most of the 200-page report focuses on the NSLs [National Security Letters], the use of which it says has undergone a "dramatic increase" since the Patriot Act was put into law after the September 11, 2001, attacks. NSLs existed before the attacks, but the Patriot Act allowed them to be used on a broader scale to seek more information. In 2000, the FBI said it issued about 8,500 NSL requests, the audit said. After the Patriot Act was enacted, the FBI issued about 39,000 in 2003; 56,000 in 2004, and 47,000 in 2005, the report said. But the audit estimates those numbers were underreported by more than 20 percent. A single NSL can contain multiple NSL requests, and multiple letters may target one individual.<< So NSL's, which were a legal investigative tool in use previous to the Patriot Act, are the main focus of this audit. And how many violations were found? >>The review examined whether there were improper or illegal uses of NSLs, and identified "26 possible intelligence violations" between 2003 and 2005, 19 of which the FBI reported to the president's Intelligence Oversight Board, the audit says. Of the 26, "22 were the result of FBI errors, while four were caused by mistakes made by recipients of the NSLs," it said.<< So, adding in the possible 20% of underreported NSL's in the time period described, we have a total of 170,000. Of these, 22 may have been improperly handled by the FBI, of which 19 were voluntarilly reported to the Intelligence Oversight Board. Do I understand this correctly?
Originally Posted By gadzuux Do you trust your government? Why should you? People here and elsewhere waved away concerns about the erosion of basic civil liberties ensured by the constitution when the patriot act was passed. They pooh-poohed the possibility of government abusing this power ceded to them, and practically made it seem un-american to state such beliefs. Now there is hard evidence that the government did indeed abuse these powers and improperly investigate americans. And what do we see? The usual suspects coming out and saying "no big deal" and "happens all the time". You may not value your constitutional protections, but I do. You may think it's okay to blithely hand them off to the likes of bush, cheney, gonzalez and ashcroft, but I know shysters when I see them.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Do I understand this correctly?" Of course you don't. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Attempts to minimize this type of behavior do nothing but enable them. You should be pissed.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Just to emphasize, since I won't be around for a while- this Administration has done absolutely nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt on anything. It's foolish to say otherwise six years into their run. So when something like this comes up, it's entirely reasonable to think the worst. That way, anything less is a pleasant surprise.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I leave in an hour or two for Arizona. I'm going to baseball Spring Training. I grew up in Chicago and follow the Cubs. My wife's an Angels fan so we'll do a few of their games as well. I get back around March 20th or so. This is the 10th year we've gone. It's a lot of fun.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>And what do we see? The usual suspects coming out and saying "no big deal" and "happens all the time".<< Ah, no. That's not what this "Usual Suspect" is saying at all. I want to be sure I am reading this story correctly. Apparently I am.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Of course you don't. This is just the tip of the iceberg.<< 22 possible violations of procedures out of 170,000 NSL's attributed to the FBI over three years is "the tip of the iceberg." Noted. What is this really about? >>Do you trust your government? Why should you?<< >>...this Administration has done absolutely nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt on anything.<< >>... I know shysters when I see them.<<
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I will be surprised if there is any real political will to go after these people once they are out of office.> There may not be the will to go after the people, but there may be the will to go after the abuses, which may lead back to certain people. Even if Whitewater had amounted to anything, it had no impact on most Americans' lives. Something like the Patriot Act does, at least potentially. So there may indeed be the will to go after abuses in an effort to fix the way it is carried out, and in the course of those investigations, certain people may stand revealed as responsible for those abuses - depending on many things, of course. My guess is the Bush admin. claims privacy rights for its records and other materials like we've never seen before.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>So there may indeed be the will to go after abuses in an effort to fix the way it [the Patriot Act] is carried out...<< I am inclined to agree with you. If the Patriot Act has done nothing else, it has served to bring into sharp relief the degree to which our government is able to engage in activities of which we may not have been aware. Lincoln said, “The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.†We may see this principle in action in the near future.
