Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/10/carter.torture/index.html" target="_blank">http://edition.cnn.com/2007/PO LITICS/10/10/carter.torture/index.html</a> Wow. Well, if anyone would know, he would! Nice "reply" by the White House. "we repeat, we don't torture", and "it's just sad to hear a former president speak like that". What do they mean "sad"? Are they calling Carter a liar? Is Carter now an "enemy combatant"?
Originally Posted By Mr X Along with that Greenspan traitor! Is it me, or are former powerful guys (first Ford, now Carter and Greenspan) speaking out much more then anyone else did in the past? And Ford and Greenspan are on BUSH's side, or were!
Originally Posted By jonvn President Ford must be pretty darned mad to be speaking out about Bush, being dead and all.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, I was wondering how to phrase Greenspan and Ford into the same sentence. But on the other hand, have you guys SEEN Greenspan lately?
Originally Posted By Mr X Yup, and now he looks like a fossil. Still sharp as a tack though...he does great long interviews and you can learn a lot, although I have NO idea why he went on the Jon Stewart show. Talk about water and oil!
Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2txrad" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2txrad</a> It was okay, it is after all a comedy show...BUT, when Greenspan speaks I want to hear his complete thoughts and he couldn't do that in this format. It's interesting anyway, check it out (it's only about 7 minutes).
Originally Posted By Mr X There's a much better "real" interview with Greenspan on Charlie Rose (long). <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2dmaao" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2dmaao</a> And also a great series done by Fortune magazine as well. Scroll down to the seventh row for the start of the series, each clip is around 5 minutes or so. <a href="http://money.cnn.com/video" target="_blank">http://money.cnn.com/video</a>
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Is it surprising to anyone that the U.S. ships people out of the country to interrogate and torture them? Are people honestly shocked at this 'revelation'?
Originally Posted By Mr X Not shocked at all. Certainly disappointed. Interesting that the White House acknowledges the memo that outlines the use of waterboarding, slapping people in the head, and extreme temperatures...but then conveniently says "well, that's not torture". Carter is absolutely right on this one.
Originally Posted By gadzuux About as shocked as they are that the president stares into the camera and flat out lies to them. Many people have died during "interrogation" - which is a polite way of saying we tortured them to death. Bush defenders will tell you that they deserved it - had it coming - they were evil - whatever. What do they know? It's odd that so many americans would sell our values down the river in the name of supporting the "party of morality". Of course, they don't see it that way. They see a bright line between "good" and "evil" and don't accept what they're told with no questions. For them, it's a matter of faith - they've placed their faith into the hands of these charlatans, and they'd rather not be told that they were duped. So then it becomes a question of culpability - if you accept that our government does indeed torture people, you also have to accept that our government lies about it. From there, it's just a hop skip and a jump to the realization that our government is thoroughly corrupt and has absolutely no respect for its own citizens; the people it's supposed to serve. Instead, we're the "marks" - we're here to be bilked. And in that, they're succeeding handsomely. Did you vote for these people? Then the culpability rests with you - at least in part. Without you and others like you, this would never have happened.
Originally Posted By Mr X Wow...here's the Carter video. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/24kx9e" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/24kx9e</a> He sure has a lot to say on this issue. He all but came out and directly accused Bush of being an international criminal!
Originally Posted By Mr X **if you accept that our government does indeed torture people, you also have to accept that our government lies about it** Actually no. Bush didn't even lie. As Carter said, it was as simple as making up his own definition of what constitutes "torture", and damn the international norms that have been in place for 60 years.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Is it surprising to anyone that the U.S. ships people out of the country to interrogate and torture them? < well we're off shoring all our white collar jobs - so no it doesn't surprise me we'd send anything from being done here. We will be completely inert in about 20 years
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Actually no. Bush didn't even lie. As Carter said, it was as simple as making up his own definition of what constitutes "torture", and damn the international norms that have been in place for 60 years. < seems like anyone in that office lately gets to make their own dictionary -- I wonder were we get a copy of what all the words really mean.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yeah, I'd still like to know the official definition of the word "is", myself. Post 18 lol.
