Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Well, a dream of mine recently came true in China ... and no, it had nothing at all to do with visiting the newest MK of them all. But since this is a site devoted to Disney, after all, I thought you might be interested in my impressions of the place, and its past and its future. I don't 'do' trip reports so this thread will be a stream of consciousness rift on HKDL. I'll add to it as time allows. I am very interested in comments, questions and feedback. So let's get to the all-important question right away and get it out of the way, shall we? Did I like the place? Yes. Totally. Unequivocally. Absotively and posilutely. I had a great time at HKDL and would recommend the park to anyone visiting HK. Whew! I'm glad I got that out of the way because what will follow may make some feel I'm a schizophrenic spirit because I am also going to criticize the hell out of the park and the folks who set out to build a McDisneyland (I think that's more apt a name than the HKDL Lite label I have used in the past). How can one bash and love at the same time? It's very simple unless you're a simple-minded spirit. First off, let me set the record straight. HKDL IS a FULL day park. That's a 10-9 day with August hours. I read many criticisms of the park that said the equivalent of 'we did everything in the park numerous times in four hours and were done.' That's simply not possible now. Maybe at opening, but even then I tend to view it as hyperbole or a case of someone who just runs from attraction to attraction and doesn't bother to see the shows, parades or wander into the shops or have a meal. FWIW, many folks believe parks like DAK and DCA are four-six hour diversions at best. I disagree with those assessments as well. I spent a full day at HKDL and did NOT see it all. You read that right. Never made it on four Fantasyland attractions (Pooh, Dumbo, Tea Cups and Carousel). For the sake of honesty, I also didn't ride any of the Main Street vehicles. Nor did I see the Stitch Encounter show (which I really wanted to, unlike the others) or the (only in Chinese) Animation Academy. I did leave for two hours to tour the hotels in the middle of the day, however. So theoretically, I could have done everything once if I had wanted. I also did ride Space Mountain five times and take two trips on Small World, which could have gone to other attractions. But I feel it is important to fairly point out that HKDL does have enough for a day's visit. Anyone going for a multi-day visit at this point is just nuts or a Disney geek (aren't those interchangeable?) because this isn't that kind of park and no justifying will turn that around. But I am jumping way ahead in the narrative. Let's start at the beginning. Location. HKDL has it. Boy, does it have it. An incredible 'we put one over on the Chinese government' parcel of land between mountains on Lantau Island (very close to the new airport) and backing to the South China Sea. There is no other Disney 'resort' that has a site like this. In a word, it's breathtaking. On my visit, it was about 92 degrees with sunshine and almost totally blue skies, which brought out the lush greenness of the mountains and foliage. Taking the subway from my hotel, which was overlooking Victoria Harbor -- kind of diagonally located across from HKDL, took 30 minutes. The final stretch is on a Disney-themed train (figures of the characters are encased in glass) and pics of Walt showcasing his love of trains are in these special cars that have Mickey shaped windows and 'magical' touches like that. It is a good transition to take you out of 'the real world' (whatever that means). But the first thing I noticed when I got out at the Disney-designed station at the resort was something very common (or in HK something you can't go 12 feet without tripping over ... really!) a 7-11 cart. Yep. 7-11s are huge over there and most of them are tiny compared to what we have in the states. And I would assume that since the station isn't owned by the Mouse (the media over there makes it clear that the park is 'government owned' which makes you wonder how emasculated that must make Bob Iger and Jay Rasulo feel), the 7-11 carts weren't something Disney had any say in. But it sure was nice to be able to buy a cheap can of coffee, Coke zero and a bottle of gum (yeah, gum!) on the way in. After leaving the station, you immediately are bombarded with a happy Disney soundtrack as you make the way down a tree-lined walkway a few hundred yards to a giant fountain ... the fountain that was supposed to go in the esplanade in Anaheim before Paul Pressler decided it wasn't needed. That's why you have a surfing Mickey on top of a whale. No, surfing isn't that big in HK! The fountain, though, is a beautiful detailed little mood-setter. Step to the right, buy your tix and there's a train station with a floral Mickey. This is where it hit me. Something that I never felt on my first visit to DLP. This park was built as a McDisneyland. It was built using as many copied designs as possible. It has the look of a Disneyland. And the feel. Yet there's no denying something's missing ... and it isn't just the signature attractions that were chopped out (or never included from the start) by the likes of Michael Eisner, Pressler and Rasulo. It's hard to quite put it into words, but you feel something's not quite right (and again, I really liked ... maybe even loved ... the park). It almost reminds me of an analogy to something I witnessed in Beijing. Many huge new impressive buildings were built just prior to the Olympics. (the CCTV HQ comes to mind immediately) ... Driving by these buildings at night, they looked so impressive with lighting on, some having huge video screens showing Olympic scenes on the sides ... but there was one 'problem' ... or quirk perhaps. And that was that many of those buildings might as well have been movie sets because all they were really were facades. Many of these huge new complexes were either incomplete or completed, but sans any tenants to occupy them. So what you had was something that looked like it had depth and substance when it had none. Now, I wouldn't say that HKDL doesn't have substance because it does. Much of what is there is quite good. As a matter of fact, I'll state right here that their versions of Space Mountain and It's a Small World are the two best in the world right now (having admittedly not seen TDL's yet). I'll also add that Jungle Cruise while not better than its stateside siblings is a very good, unique take on an old favorite. The shows are on par with the very best in Disney theme park entertainment. The parades (two of them) are very well done. And the fireworks are great. So ... it's not that there isn't substance there. It's just that well ... every chance to cheapen out can be seen. So while this park DOES ooze the Disney feel when you walk under the train station, versus say the first impressions I got from DCA and DSP, you can't help but feel that things aren't quite what they seem. What's missing? Depth ... more to follow ...
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I definately know that feeling that you're talking about. It really did seem hollow or empty to me, even though the buildings were all full. I guess since I'm just so used to DL and all the history within the park, it was just so strange to see in a different setting. Even the more unique areas like Adventureland just didn't quite get the feeling for me. I don't know if it's just because I had never been to a Disney park when it was that young (less than a year), or what, but it certainly seemed to be lacking. Even now, it appears as though it looks a lot more 'real' than it did in some places (Main Street is still strange to me). What's particularly strange about it is that certain areas felt like they had always been there, while others that were very close just felt so off to me. The big river for the Jungle Cruise worked really well for me (on the shore at least, still not sure about on the ride), but the enormous waiting area for the Lion King show felt like a facade. The treehouse felt fake, but the trails and landscaping at the base of it really worked well for me. The area around Philharmagic, Fantasy Gardens, and teacups just felt a little 'off', but the rest of Fantasyland was fine. For the most part, Tomorrowland worked really well for me, but Buzz just didn't quite fit in. All of Main Street seemed off, including the Train and Castle. The common theme there seems to be that the areas that they did differently than before worked for me, while the cloned spots didn't really have that feeling. I don't know how to explain it, since they were so similar in overall execution, but just had such a different feeling. Hopefully with time this park will start to come up with its own identity, but for right now, it's just a little off (although the not family friendly Halloween festivities are setting it apart, along with the extensive New Years celebrations).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 So ... what do I mean when I say HKDL is lacking depth? The park isn't lacking in detailing. It has Disney touches all over. Yet in some rather important ways it misses its mark precisely because no MK had ever been built with money and caution being such overriding factors. You walk out onto Main Street and it feels like Main Street in Anaheim ... even nicer brick pavers and flowers in Town Square ... yet it all feels smaller. Lacking that certain something. I remember many absurd tales of DLP closing (which was never going to happen but anyway) and all I could think of was what would happen if a Disney park closed. How would they take it apart? What structures would be left? Well, Main Street has the feel that if Disney wanted to close it tomorrow it wouldn't take but a few days to rip off all the turn of the century theming and leave basic empty building shells. The lack of depth while having the Disney details aren't contradictory either. A great example is the Emporium, which is a beautiful detailed version. It really looks (like all shops of the Pressler era) themed to the hilt. But as you're walking through it, something hits you. The shop has no depth. Unlike Anaheim, Paris (or Orlando's massive World of Disney Superstore), the shop isn't deep. The back rooms aren't there. The walls are close in. Then you notice what isn't there on Main Street. No ice cream shop/stand (and no corporate spin anyone, the Chinese love their ice cream). No Casey's selling hot dogs. No horse drawn streetcars. The Cinema is there ... well as a facade for a Chow Sang Sang jewelry shop, which sells some of the most expensive trinkets you'll find in a Disney theme park ... pieces that are worth six figures (in USD!) Again, Main Street is wonderfully themed ... the Plaza Inn, which almost occupies the space where Casey's would be, is so ornate and beautiful inside (with an extensive Chinese menu). The view of Sleeping Beauty Castle with the mountains rising up is where you stop and say 'this can be a world class park IF ...' There's a natural beauty element added to the fantasy elements that simply has no peer at other MKs. But (and you knew it was coming), the Castle is the perfect place to drive home the point about Disney building this park on the cheap. Not only did they steal the blueprints from Anaheim, so as to save on designing something new, but the castle is the only one that has NOTHING of substance to it. No attraction. No dining facility. No shops. Nothing to see. Nada. Zippo. Zero. It is just a big castle facade. You wouldn't even know who it was themed to except for a small (and very easily missed) sculpture of Aurora and her prince to the left of the courtyard. And while I'm taking shots, one of the first windows you see on Main Street is over the camera shop and is for Jay Rasulo and Wing Chao. And well ... I just don't have any kind words to say about Jay, what kind of exec he is and what he has done to the Disney 'brand.' But this park certainly has his slimy fingerprints all over it. Again, the fact that what is there is so nice is a tribute the talent at WDI. The shortcomings of this park can all be traced to that window ... and the one across the way with Eisner and Iger's names on it (although Bob gets no blame for how this park opened). I think this is the obligatory part where I remind all of what was budgeteered out of the park after it had been announced: two complete lands (Frontierland and Toontown), a dino-themed rolley coaster thru a primeval jungle, a Boneyard play area (like DAK's), the Aladdin spinner, Peter Pan and Little Mermaid dark rides, a kiddie coaster a la the Barnstormer, a version of Mansion (likely DLP's cloned), a raft ride from Disney's America concept and the Tough To Be a Bug 3D flick as well as numerous shopping and dining concepts. Again, I believe this is why you've never seen the original park concept rendering/map ... because a third of the park ceased to exist. OK ... again, I don't want anyone getting the wrong impression about my impressions/feelings ... but I do feel it is very important to tell the whole story. And Disney execs went into this park trying to spend no money, trying to put one over on the Chinese government as well as the local citizens. Well, they reached their third year attendance goal of 5.6 million, so one must ask themselves if Disney truly made a wise choice in going in more conservatively than the crazy Alaskan governor. One thing you'll hear by the spinmeisters is that Disney had to ... that no one knows its characters ... there's no brand recognition ... that the locals have to be 'taught' about Disney. I just lived in China for the past two months. I had a team of 31 people under me, most of whom were from the Beijing area. I met and spoke with countless others. (we may have struggled to understand each other ... but they all spoke Disney!) They all knew Disney quite well ... they know Mickey ... and Donald ... and Ariel ... and Buzz ... and Mulan ... and etc ... I did a bit of my own 'consulting' and I can tell you people know and love Disney and its characters. The only non-Disney character that I saw plenty of on tees, caps, merchandise was Spongebob (but Viacom has always had closer ties with China anyway and Nickelodeon is huge there) Moving on ... one thing about the park is that it can appear empty and overcrowded all at the same time (likely due to its dearth of attractions). I took pics (and yes, I am actually contemplating putting some online for the first time ever) and it's amazing how I was able to take pics of absolute desolation (totally empty walkways at midday in a MK) and minutes later it was body to body. Stream of consciousness here ... but one pic I took was a classic as it showed an empty stroller parking area on Main Street. One thing I can say about the Chinese is they aren't lazy fat slobs who push their kids around. Children walk. Period. If I saw a dozen strollers in one day at HKDL then I saw a lot. ECVs? None. I saw maybe 5-6 wheelchairs, all occupied by either elderly or obviously disabled folks. Never saw one person who'd be labeled as morbidly obese. Again, I think that says more about us as a nation than it does about the Chinese. Wait times varied ... longest I saw posted was for pooh at 50 minutes followed by a 40 minute wait for Small World that was really about 20 (as i waited in it). Interesting food and beverage note is that almost every quick serve location in the park serves chilled plastic bottles of soft drinks (Coke, Coke Zero, Sprite, Fanta Orange are the only four soft drinks served) instead of fountain drinks. I wonder if there is some cultural reason or cost reason or what. Maintenance was spectacular. The entire park looked as if it had just opened yesterday. The ONLY exception was a wall in Space Mountain' queue that had seen better days. Clearly, Disney knows this park's biggest issue is a lack of attractions. What is there is, again, very high quality. But there isn't enough for people who know that Disney means Pirates and Mansion and Peter Pan and Snow White and Splash Mountain etc ... etc ... and they do know. That is why they'll flock to the local park (Ocean Park) which has a whole lot more to offer, even if the quality is closer to a Six Flags than a Disney (and on this I am just going on what I've been told as I didn't go there). Disney has tried to make up for it with a lot of filler ...stuff like High School Musical (in front of the castle, no less), Turtle Talk (which had already made its exit when I arrived) and the roaming Bunsen Honeydew and Beaker (which was a huge crowd-pleaser). But what HKDL needs most is simply major, signature (i.e. costly) Disney attractions. They now list 28 attractions on the current park map, but the actual number is about half that. Telling people that the rafts to Tarzan's Treehouse and Tarzan's treehouse are separate attractions isn't fooling anyone and calling City Hall, the Liki Tikis and the Pass Processing Center 'attractions' is simply insulting to guests. Small World, which was also supposed to be in the park at opening, is the first step toward rectifying the dearth of attractions ... and it is a wonderful start. This is simply a great updating of a classic, signature attraction for a new time and audience ... and I'll discuss it more in my next post. More later ...
Originally Posted By barboy ///If I saw a dozen strollers in one day at HKDL then I saw a lot. ECVs? None. I saw maybe 5-6 wheelchairs, all occupied by either elderly or obviously disabled folks. Never saw one person who'd be labeled as morbidly obese./// Welcome to S.E. and E Asia pal! There's more of that 4 hrs. by plane near Chiba.
Originally Posted By barboy ///(Ocean Park) which has a whole lot more to offer, even if the quality is closer to a Six Flags than a Disney/// Uhhh, well, 6 Flags and Paramount are two notches higher I'm afraid.
Originally Posted By barboy You noticed the pavers on Main St.. Good, as that looks so much nicer than the asphalt found at his four older siblings.
Originally Posted By irishfan You noticed the pavers on Main St.. Good, as that looks so much nicer than the asphalt found at his four older siblings<< Make that three, Main Street at DLP is beautifully paved. My biggest gripe with HKDL was Main Street, as the Spirit mentioned there was no depth, what should have been at least 8 or 9 individual stores, we have one massive one, taking up one entire side.
Originally Posted By Disneymom443 It sounds like you really enjoyed yourself. You described everything so beautiful, and I know you take lots of pictures, so did you this time? Can we see some? I get what you ment when you said something was missing..... maybe it was just the aora. thanks Spirit for the report, it is very informative.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Make that three, Main Street at DLP is beautifully paved./// Yep, how could I have forgotten that about the most lavish, highly detailed beautiful park in the world-- DlP.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Spirit, great thoughts and very much what I suspected to hear. It sounds like my family could happily spend a couple of days there. Inc taking in the shows, plaza gardens and crystal lotus, swim time, my family enjoy at least 3 or 4 times on Buzz and IASW, and fireworks! My only issue is PotC and HM are my two fav attractions ever. I am worried about feeling gyped by not having them. Also I am surprised you prefer HKDL's IASW to DLP's! Can you explain why? Interested to hear more about the olympics.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Make that three, Main Street at DLP is beautifully paved.>> True. And one negative I noticed was that while the streets had beautiful pavers the sidewalks had plain concrete, which was really jarring. It wasn't even painted. <<My biggest gripe with HKDL was Main Street, as the Spirit mentioned there was no depth, what should have been at least 8 or 9 individual stores, we have one massive one, taking up one entire side. >> My issue was more of ... I guess 'depth perception' ... while I'd like to see individual stores like DL and DLP still have, I've become used to the Super WalMarted Main Street in Orlando where one side, which at one time likely had 6-7 shops, now has one huge crap outlet that stretches the length of the Street. At least at HKDL, the Emporium is a beautifully themed shop that doesn't appear to go on forever. I also liked their merchandise mix a bit more, even if it skews to a Tokyo type of small cell phone danglers and tins of cookies and mooncakes and the like (but more on that later).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, great thoughts and very much what I suspected to hear. It sounds like my family could happily spend a couple of days there.>> You are a special Disney spirit, Dave, so yeah I think you could get a few quality days out of a visit. I probably could easily stretch a two-day visit myself IF I were staying at one of the hotels (and I'll be writing about them later) and wanted to sit by a nice pool and maybe visit the spa too. This isn't a half-day park no matter what anyone tells you. It's just a very small one that is missing too many signature (PRICEY) Disney attractions. <<Inc taking in the shows, plaza gardens and crystal lotus, swim time, my family enjoy at least 3 or 4 times on Buzz and IASW, and fireworks!>> The shows are right up there with things like DCA's Aladdin, DLP's Lion King and DAK's Nemo in terms of quality ... they are certainly E-Tix in their own right. Crystal Lotus, frankly, disappointed me (I didn't dine there) as the menu simply didn't have much variety, which also was surprising because most HKDL dining locales actually have extensive selections (I guess the Chinese don't want six choices!) <<My only issue is PotC and HM are my two fav attractions ever. I am worried about feeling gyped by not having them.>> There's no debating that you feel their loss. You can't help but be struck by how much isn't there, even while enjoying what is ... and I have no doubt as your friend that YOU will like HKDL. <<Also I am surprised you prefer HKDL's IASW to DLP's! Can you explain why?>> Going to in my next post, which I intend to start soon! <<Interested to hear more about the olympics.>> That may have to stay in email as I'm not sure people want to read that here ... btw, I emailed you last night (and why do I feel like it didn't go thru?)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK ... so I know I said I'd talk about Small World, but first I need to go back to the whole McDisneyland thought. Because I think what I feel most of all is that HKDL feels like a cut and paste job. Adventureland is wonderful, but you can't help but realize much of it is DAK for instance. Winnie the Pooh was such a complete lift from the MK that they even included the tribute to Mr. Toad that makes no sense in a HK context. I know Disney parks all borrow from each other for many elements. But there is such a feel that things were simply copied with this park. I suspect that even if the original plans had been followed thru, I'd still feel this way since so much was going to be cloned and/or lifted from other parks. Anyway ... just a thought. Next up: thoughts on Small World and HKDL's stable of attractions.
Originally Posted By MPierce I am surprised by your review so far. I will be waiting for the rest, since I don't want to ask repetitive questions.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<Crystal Lotus, frankly, disappointed me (I didn't dine there) as the menu simply didn't have much variety, which also was surprising because most HKDL dining locales actually have extensive selections (I guess the Chinese don't want six choices!)>> I tried Crystal Lotus and was not impressed either. Unless you're inclined to staying on-site, there are far better choices not too far away in the city.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It sounds like you really enjoyed yourself. >> I did. I loved China. I loved Beijing, Hong Kong, Macau. Yep, I guess I loved HKDL too. The people were absolutely so friendly, wonderful and welcoming of 'outsiders' ... when they found out you were an American they literally treated you like a king. I will be back in 2010. But if I could go back tomorrow (especially with three hurricanes out in the Atlantic!) i would. It was one of the most amazing, rewarding and just plain flat out fun experiences of my life. <<You described everything so beautiful, and I know you take lots of pictures, so did you this time? Can we see some? >> I'm actually thinking of doing so. It may take a bit since I haven't even started looking over and editing what was taken, but you may see some spirited shots in the future <<I get what you ment when you said something was missing..... maybe it was just the aora. thanks Spirit for the report, it is very informative. >> Thanks for reading!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I am surprised by your review so far. I will be waiting for the rest, since I don't want to ask repetitive questions.>> I am curious as to what you found surprising. Please ask away ... in my family you always wind up answering the same questions endless times anyway!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***There's more of that 4 hrs. by plane near Chiba.*** IN Chiba, actually. Unless you mean Chiba city. TDR is located in the city of Urayasu, just over the border of Tokyo, in Chiba prefecture.
Originally Posted By Mr X Great report, thanks! I felt very much the same as you did, I think. Although I didn't love the place as much as you seem to have (nothing wrong with that!). Definitely I got that same feeling of "something's not quite right here" anyway. Though it's hard to put a finger on it. It's certainly not the look of the place, as you mention. The place looks very nice. I'm glad you pointed out the surroundings, that is a HUGE plus for HKDL. When it grows a bit, I'm sure I'll enjoy it more.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***That may have to stay in email as I'm not sure people want to read that here*** I wanna read about it! (care to forward your thoughts to Dave on to me as well, at least? I'm very curious about how you enjoyed the festivities and what it was like firsthand. If so, feel free to write anytime at jammindave@hotmail.com)
