Originally Posted By barboy I finally got a chance to see first hand HKDL's 3 new lands: Grizzly Gulch, Mystic Manor and Toy Story. The operative decscriptive one word here is 'charming'. As expected I liked very much what I saw. But I have to say that I wish that the decsion makers would have made just two lands(Grizzly and Mystic, obvioulsy) instead of spreading so thin with 3. I think the 3 new land approach was merely a ploy to give the illusion that a serioulsy massive addition would be coming to the park to generate more interest. Of course planners get to cite that by making 3 lands the paying public sees more choices of themes. Grizzly Gulch has some fine themes no doubt but overall I find the other "Frontierlands" better. The one and only ride Big Thunder Mountain.....I mean Runaway Mine Cars is solid fun with nice visuals BUT fell short on special effects/sets: too few AA's. But the few(I counted 3 sets with AA's) on the ride I found quite delightful. This coaster rode smoothly and dilvered one nice thrust but the rest of the attraction was just too tame for my liking. The Mine Cars ride clearly borrowed elements from Florida's Yeti Exp Everest with the ride system and super predictable backwards portion along with few AA's. Naturally, Big Thunders at the other parks served as inspiration too. Mystic Point: The mansion/manor is wonderful to look at----- top 10 ride facades I have seen. Designers really put their forced perspective talents to work on this architectual wonder and I loved their use of colors too.
Originally Posted By barboy ............not done yet. This ride---Mystic Manor--- is very playful and ropes in a new Disney 'familiar'/sidekick/partner named Albert-----am inquisiative monkey that should not have opened up a music box from his master's worldy collections. I like this Albert because he's got some character and identity. Noteworthy about this signiture attraction is the large show scenes and 'trackless' operating system....I can only assume that it is very much like Hunny Hunt and those water scooters from Disney Sea which appear to move randomly at first glance throw the show sets but actually travel a very definite path. Cheers to HKDL for taking a chance and giving us a completely different "Haunted Mansion" attraction. Something else that caught my attention, just as the runaway mine cars borrowed so much from Yeti and BTMRR's so too did this one: Disney Sea's Hightower TOT and the Haunted Mansions. Mystic point did not have anything else to do except a couple of diversions and a small stage for shows. The Explorers food area looks damn fine too and I will eat there next time. Toy Story!!! Mom always said if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all. I have nothing to say. Now on to two glaring complaints disquised as questions. 1) why is there not a train stop that can service Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point? The train passes within a broom stick away from those lands!!! 2) Who made the moronic decision to broadcast to all the inhabitants(guests) of Grizzly Gulch that the lifting cable for the mine cars will snap sending riders backwards and out of control? As a rider we should not have known about that until it happens don't ya think?!?!
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Nice review! It sounds like your in-person reaction is quite similar to the impression I've gotten from the photos. While it's nice to have 3 small lands, I imagine they feel very out of place as part of the park where the lands have much broader themes I agree that the lack of train station was an odd choice. Isn't the stage at Mystic Point themed to a train station? Seems like that would be an easy problem to fix a few years down the road. I'm still somewhat surprised that they decided to put these new lands outside the berm, since they originally touted how the park was being built with a 'flexible' train track (whatever that means) that would grow as the park expands. So far, all of the additions have taken place outside the berm (other than Animation Academy, which was installed in an existing building) I also think the placement of the lands themselves is somewhat odd, since Mystic Point seems like an extension of Adventureland, yet you have to walk through Grizzly Gulch to get there. Supposedly there's space to expand GG in the future, which led to the placement, but it still seems very strange I'm also surprised that you can see the cable breaking and trains going backwards from within the land. Although it's hardly a secret, I really like that you can't see the backward portion of Everest from the ground. I wonder if they were worried that guests might be too scared by the surprise, so they made it obvious, similar to how TDS's TOT isn't in disrepair since it's a cultural thing. It's also a shame that the Grizzly ride isn't as thrilling as you might have hoped. I was worried when I saw the plans, since it looks like a lot of it takes place at/below ground level, without any real major hills to build up speed or variety. I know that the queue for Space Mountain tends to be quite short, so perhaps they knew their park didn't have a big thrill audience
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Are there expansion pads in the new areas or spots where things can be added down the road?
Originally Posted By believe GG is extremely family oriented. Which, as I get old, I do appreciate. Other than the ride, there's not much going on in that land. Some photo ops and a land to absorb people looking for a quieter spot. When we were there last xmas time, the line was 5 minutes long (the ride was new), so we rode it three times. As a comparison, Pooh, Autopias, were 60 minutes. SM was 30 mins. Perhaps roller coasters are not their thing in that part of the world.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I mean Runaway Mine Cars is solid fun with nice visuals BUT fell short on special effects/sets: too few AA's. But the few(I counted 3 sets with AA's) on the ride I found quite delightful.>> Too few? How many did you want? You can't have AAs during the faster elements so you are limited to the number of places to put show scenes (usually at tractor climbs and braking areas). The three scenes were enough to drive the storyline. Nugget in particular is especially well-animated - the explosion scene is one of the best in recent memory. <<1) why is there not a train stop that can service Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point?>> The train faces into the existing park - every single car would need to be refurbished in order to have an exit facing the outside of the berm (obviously inside the berm is Jungle Cruise for much of the expansion). We built the railroad to have an entirely expandable track - sadly it was deemed a waste of budget to move the railroad hence it retains its position. <<2) Who made the moronic decision to broadcast to all the inhabitants(guests) of Grizzly Gulch that the lifting cable for the mine cars will snap sending riders backwards and out of control? As a rider we should not have known about that until it happens don't ya think?!?!>> Maybe to you but to Chinese audiences they don't like the element of surprise - you need to show them what they are about to experience wherever possible. Every single market research study came back with the same conclusions. I do think that the entire Mine Shift No. 4 area takes up too much real estate in the land but it was decided that the majority of the attraction needed to be visible. Hypercoasters and their ilk just aren't popular in China where they seem to prefer a more sedate coaster experience.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Toy Story!!! Mom always said if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all. I have nothing to say.>> The land itself is significantly better executed than its Parisian cousin. Obviously it is the same carny ride experiences but the layout and props used are far superior.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But I have to say that I wish that the decsion makers would have made just two lands(Grizzly and Mystic, obvioulsy) instead of spreading so thin with 3>> And have Manor in GG or RMCs in MP? The decision to go with three mini-lands was purely driven by the concepts - once both MM and RMCs were conceived it was apparent that they couldn't occupy the same space. I still don't like the masterplanning aspect of the expansion but the three mini-lands are at least consistent and coherent within themselves.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Are there expansion pads in the new areas or spots where things can be added down the road?>> No - all three are now complete. You could juggle a new pathway behind RMCs but MP is very compact and 80% of the landmass is occupied by MM. It was a conscious decision not to include any future pads.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: So leemac, duckling, how hard would it be for HKDL to bring in different train cars so that guests could see things on BOTH sides of the track instead of just one. Didn't they originally think they'd be expanding things out beyond the original train tracks?
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ The point is that there is a lot of BOH stuff visible if you could see out of both sides of the trains. By facing the cars inside the berm you can control the narrative much easier. The track is expandable - just lift and shift. Very cost effective and deliberately so. However the decision was made not to do so on this occasion (I disagreed). It would have been nice to incorporate the train into the new lands.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>>Too few? How many did you want?<<< I agree.. there's more to see here than say..Everest at DAK? >>>The operative decscriptive one word here is 'charming'<<< I disagree. There's nothing charming about Toy Story Land. It's Crap. However, Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Manor are highly detailed to a level that frankly even the new Fantasyland area of the MK fails to achieve. So no, they're not charming areas those two. They're TDS worthy.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Too few? How many did you want?/// I wanted many----10+, please. ///You can't have AAs during the faster elements/// Realy?! A) I don't agree with that B) but even if I did agree with the speed issues then there was an easy way to add more shows----if the designers really wanted and could afford more: slow the the ride down at more select spots........obvioulsy too late now to feasibly do. ///Nugget in particular is especially well-animated - the explosion scene is one of the best in recent memory./// I might even one up you on that. That scene could rival just about any show scene I have seen in any park at any time; so very well done!! But here is the issue for me: I grew up on BTMRR's and those attractions are loaded with scenes and AA's......and those trains take quick turns and move through the sets fairly quickly but yet the guest still appreciates what the designers placed there.
Originally Posted By barboy ///The train faces into the existing park - every single car would need to be refurbished in order to have an exit facing the outside of the berm (obviously inside the berm is Jungle Cruise for much of the expansion)./// Ya I thought about that while riding and I came up with a solution(knowing full well that the seats can not be repostioned and that rerouting the train just won't happen): Build one stop-----say for Grizzly Gulch--- and have it covered/"indoors" themed high Sierra. Guests exit the train through this covered small building and descend some stairs/ramp and make their way under the train tracks and pop up inside Grizzly Gulch. The same fix could be done if Mystic Manor were the chosen stop for that side of the park.
Originally Posted By barboy ///I also think the placement of the lands themselves is somewhat odd, since Mystic Point seems like an extension of Adventureland, yet you have to walk through Grizzly Gulch to get there./// OMG that was supposed to be on my review and I totally forgot about it......Ya, I too questioned the sequence of lands considering adventurland's preexsting placement. A better transition for us is Adventureland then Mystic Point followed by Gulch.
Originally Posted By barboy ///Maybe to you but to Chinese audiences they don't like the element of surprise /// Hmmmmm? What a bummer..... and I'm not convinced. Chinese queued for a completely covered Space Mountain and exited the ride with smiles. Mystic Manor, a totally indoor experience offered surprises like arrows and spears being thrown and people seemed to enjoy. Even jungle cruise gave us a nice surprise at the end where smoke, fire and water welling up to surface explosions made for for fun and excitement.
Originally Posted By believe ///Nugget in particular is especially well-animated - the explosion scene is one of the best in recent memory./// The LED lights during the "explosion" were cheesy. Period. But the rest of the scenery was good. Train stop - they could always do a tunnel thing where people walk under the train track like on Small world. Or at DL toontown. BTW, that train is rather cheesy and cheap. And not because it's not a real steam train, it's just seems cheap. And when it starts up and takes off, it "clunks" majorly.
Originally Posted By barboy ///.. there's more to see here than say..Everest at DAK?/// Well yes there is...... but that aint be sayin much. I would expect any attraction that anchors a land which uses show scenes/AA's to outdo Everest in that department. And one thing to add: unlike the star of the show on Everest, the mine shaft dwelling bears ***MOVE*** beautifully, too,....they are 'living' and have character--- outstanding AA's, really that can compete with just about any AA's I've seen anywhere. I wanted more. Those Grizzlies(which actually looked more like California black bear to me hahahahahaha) and that inquisitive monkey Albert hanging out in the Manor are so damn good. BRAVO! Even Lord Henry was done exceptionally well the two times we meet him.
Originally Posted By friarthe "Chinese queued for a completely covered Space Mountain and exited the ride with smiles." Compared to Pooh's Hunny Hunt or character meet-and-greets, SM has had a pretty short line every time I've ridden it -- that's a joy of being a HKDL passholder, and being in the thrill-ride-loving minority. Also, there are no surprises on SM. Just lots of right turns. My experience living here for the last 3 years agrees with the research cited -- that locals like to know what they're getting into, in entertainment. I wonder if this is why the finale to Jungle Cruise is so obvious from the riverfront?
