Originally Posted By RoadTrip I was surprised not to see this posted on World Events before now. I assume since it happened in Minneapolis we've had more coverage of the event than in other areas of the country. Here it is in a nutshell: <<MINNEAPOLIS - The Council on American-Islamic Relations called Tuesday for an investigation into the behavior of airline staff and airport security in the removal of six Muslim scholars from a US Airways flight a day earlier. A passenger raised concerns about the imams — three of whom said their normal evening prayers in the airport terminal before boarding the Phoenix-bound plane, according to one — through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways. “We are concerned that crew members, passengers and security personnel may have succumbed to fear and prejudice based on stereotyping of Muslims and Islam,†Nihad Awad, the council’s executive director, said in a news release.>> Source: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15 824096/</a> Terrible case of prejudice, right? I don't think so. What apparently hasn't been reported beyond the Minneapolis area is some of the details: <<Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday’s events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein. One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur’an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating “Allah, Allah,†he said. And a couple of the imams asked for seat-belt extensions, even though it did not appear they needed them, Hogan said. All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said. As a result, the pilot called police to have the imams escorted from plane.>> It has been further reported that the men were carrying multiple identifications using different names. How many of us carry around phony ID's, especially when getting on a plane? I do not think that the Imams intended to cause any harm to the plane or its passengers. I do think that they were looking to create an incident and wanted the publicity it would bring. What do they expect?? I'm a 54 year old white guy and I know enough not to do anything unusual at the airport or on the plane. Don't you think these guys should be trying to fit in rather than stand out?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper My guess? They were looking to see if they could get thrown off the plane, then make some money of the "embarassment". But I'm a slightly younger white guy. I don't think they should be trying to "fit in" or ignore their prayers...but if it is true they were talking like that then they are just stupid.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I saw one of the guys on TV. He was as fat as a house. He needed a seat belt extension if anyone did.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Reports I read said that they were standing in the plane and chanting their "prayers". This is showy and unnecessary, and highly likely to provoke a reaction. I would also be uncomfortable if christians were to stand and pray publicly while on a jet, so it's not their muslim faith per se that's the problem - it's behavior that is questionable no matter who does it. After being removed from the plane and questioned, they were sent back out to the ticket counter to be re-booked on another flight. At this point, the ticketing agents told them (in front of news cameras) that they were not going to be accomodated and if they had any questions they needed to call customer relations. This is where the airline got it wrong. They created an unnecessary scene, and garnered bad publicity for themselves. They should have quietly called these passengers aside and advised them privately that they were not going allow them to fly. So everybody comes off looking bad in this incident.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< It has been further reported that the men were carrying multiple identifications using different names. How many of us carry around phony ID's, especially when getting on a plane? >>> Just a point of order: Having IDs in multiple names doesn't necessarily mean that any of them are "phony." It's entirely possible to have more than one set of legal names, especially for foreigners or people that used to be foreigners. It does indeed raise suspicions, and I don't mean to discount that, but just say that someone with more than one name on various IDs isn't necessarily carrying "phony" (whether they be conterfeit or improperly obtained genuine documents) ID.
Originally Posted By jonvn They were properly kept off the flight, sounds like. Bunch of religious nuts talking about how the US should be destroyed, with ID in different names, about to board a plane. Oh, sure, let them right on. Would you care for a complimentary box cutter, too?
Originally Posted By Mr X Hmm...I'd like to know what the "anti-american" rhetoric was. Sounds to me like that is the ONLY thing they did "wrong", though I can imagine all the rest might make people nervous. I don't believe it's a crime to have a conversation about the war in Iraq, talk about Sadaam Hussein, or say "Allah". At least, noone would care if some white guys said all that stuff. And, was it a private conversation or were they shouting it for all to hear? Definitely praying before a flight is pretty normal, I do it. In fact, it's the only time I do! lol. And requesting a seatbelt extention is a normal thing too, isn't it (although I bet they find a reason to freak out about this and start not allowing fat people to fly for fear of a "seatbelt extention weapon". I guess the terrorists will horsewhip or hang all the passengers now right?). As for the ID's, if they were phony why weren't they charged with a crime? Perhaps what SD wrote is more the case (my own daughter travels with two passports under two different names with two writing systems on them...oh, yeah, cause she's Japanese/American!). So, a whole bunch of circumstantial stuff. And if they really HAD done something wrong (such as threaten the safety of the aircraft or truly trying to pass off false identification), wouldn't they be in jail right now? Just playing devils advocate here.
Originally Posted By Mr X On the other hand...one thing I read while searching around that is not here is the fact that they refused to disembark. THAT, I can see is obviously criminal (isn't the pilot the ultimate authority on a flight?). So, I wonder why they WEREN'T charged...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip As I said before, I really doubt these guys meant any harm to the aircraft or passengers. I do believe they intended to make a scene to make a point, much as black people did 50 years ago when they would sit at an all-white lunch counter or refuse to go to the back of the bus. The difference of course is that blacks at a lunch counter or front of the bus had never resulted in the death of 3,000 people. But they STILL got arrested for their actions. So I guess what I'm saying is that if these guys wanted to hold a public protest about how Muslims are treated in America that's fine with me. I personally think they're treated pretty darned good but if they want to protest I've got no problem with that. But to make a scene on a plane? That is just plain stupid!!
Originally Posted By jonvn "Sounds to me like that is the ONLY thing they did "wrong", though I can imagine all the rest might make people nervous." That's enough right there.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well yes. I agree. That's why I'd be curious to know what exactly was said beyond "anti-American rhetoric". I mean, that could mean a lot of different things, some criminal (in an airport setting), some not. I mean, I could say "gee, I definitely prefer spending time in Canada compared to America"...that could be construed as anti-American rhetoric couldn't it? Is it a crime, though? I just wonder how much was what the guys actually did, and how much had to do with the whole heightened anxiety crap (fueled by constant reminders from Washington) we've had in America since 2001. Hate to say it, but I'm glad I don't live in the U.S. right now. I still love my country, but MAN things are just too tense...it's no way to live!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Hate to say it, but I'm glad I don't live in the U.S. right now. I still love my country, but MAN things are just too tense...it's no way to live!>> No, it is not any way to live. Life in the United States has been permanently changed by 9/11. A sense of security is gone that no number of soldiers or bombs will ever be able to bring back. I hate the terrorists for that even more than I hate them for the 3,000 innocent lives taken. No matter what happens in Iraq or elsewhere in the Middle East the terrorists have won. Life in the United States will never be the same again. So if once in a while a few guys from the Middle East get tossed off a plane... oh well. Cry me a river.
Originally Posted By jonvn Lots of moslems and lots of these guys fly all the time. It's not like they were the very first since 9/11. They were probably acting in an odd way, and what happened to them was well deserved. Even if you are not moslem if you act in a manner that is slightly odd, they will put you off the plane.
Originally Posted By jonvn And, actually, I'm glad they put people off the plane now. I have been in airports tons of times when people act like real jerks, screaming at the workers and causing problems while everyone else just tries to follow the rules. Last time I flew, one person tried that nonsense, and guess what, they were told that if they didn't clam up they couldn't fly. Good. Who do these people think they are, anyway?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 FWIW, I watched several episodes of the show on A&E called "Airline" (I think) that showed day to day operations of Southwest Airlines. Naturally, they rarely showed a flight where everything went smoothly - they mostly showed the problems. And they quite often (once an episode at least, it seemed) refused boarding to people who were drunk (or took them off the plane if they only caught it after they boarded), or were not drunk but belligerent. Now, what constitutes "belligerent" is obviously subjective, but it looked like it was the airline's call.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I had to stop watching 'Airline.' It made me a nervous wreck just seeing the insane passengers and all their issues. In this case, the airline did the right thing. If anyone's acting strange in any way, it's just too great a risk to allow them on a plane.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal ^^^When I watch Airline I have flashbacks to working in City Hall at Disneyland. That show could be called "City Hall" and the only difference would be the venue! Same shenanigans!!
Originally Posted By peeaanuut I think that the overall point is that they made the flight crew and airport works highly uncomfortable. Those people put up with alot of crap every day and I am sure they do not have a short fuse. So whatever was said or whatever the actions were made them very nervous and to take action. I am not surprised the were not charged with a crime as just like in similar situations in the past the uproar and chaos would more than outweigh the original actions and completely blow the situation out of proportion.
