Originally Posted By BlueState_Republican In my opinion the patriot act doesnt go far enough. I would VOLUNTEER to allow Homeland Security moniter my phone, mail, computer, library activity, cell phone EVERYTHING. I break no laws and have nothing to fear. People dont realize thet Radical Islam and the brutal followers of this twisted abomination of a religion want to kill all Americans. There are rumors of an Al Quada plot to detonate a nuke in a major American city. The weapon supposedly comes from an ex-Soviet stockpile. I hope to God its not true. If it means giving Homeland security complete access to every possible means of locating and stopping such a plot how could anybody disagree? Only those breaking laws should be afraid. Sadly, until something like the abovementioned scenario happens liberal and stupid Americans will continue to cut off the nose of "personal privacy" to spite the face of the safety of all Americans.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Oh that post is going to get you on the mobs " ignore the troll " list.
Originally Posted By BlueState_Republican Wait a minute. How could anybody with even a hint of intelligence disagree with my op?
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Have you seen the libs on here? They take the side of the terrorists all the time because to them Bush is the real enemy. Just read a few of their threads. For bonus fun, ask the people in " the mob " as I call them, to post a link to a thread in the last 2 YEARS that is pro America, pro militray, patriotic, or positive about the Future of America. They can't do it! Now they call me a troll and have me on " ignore ". LOL
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> How could anybody with even a hint of intelligence disagree with my op? << Let me try. You're volunteering to surrender your constitutionally protected rights as an american citizen. And you're surrendering them to your own government. Why would you cede power and authority over you, to them? One word - "fear". Our government has traded on generating and maintaining fear within the populace to increase their own power. It doesn't work on everybody, but it sure seems to be effective on some. Isn't the republican party supposed to be about smaller, less obtrusive government that stays out of people's lives? What you're advocating isn't 'republicanism' at all - it's an orwellian 'big brother' government that can only provide a false sense of security, at best. Republican president abraham lincoln said it best - our downfall will not come from some foreign invaders, but from within. You should know where the threats to your freedoms comes from. In this case, it's you - you're your own worst enemy, happily offering to give away the only protections you have against a totalitarian government.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "There are rumors of an Al Quada plot to detonate a nuke in a major American city. The weapon supposedly comes from an ex-Soviet stockpile." This rumor has been around for years.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I think the Patriot Act is something we need to watch very carefully. It definitely increases our security and I believe gives law enforcement the tools needed to do more to combat terrorist plots. But things like 'every possible means' is a loaded statement, and could lead to big, bg problems for all of us. Remember, BlueState, even though President Bush may have the very best intentions, all the rights and freedoms you willingly gve up in the name of safety, and all the power you give the goverment in the name of protection, could one day be in the hands of a presidential administration you do not agree with. Would you be comfortable with that? How easy would it be to get those freedoms back?
Originally Posted By Lake Nona >>People dont realize thet Radical Islam and the brutal followers of this twisted abomination of a religion want to kill all Americans.<< For all you libs here on LP, that would also include you. Time to wake up and smell that strong coffee in the morning.
Originally Posted By barboy Blue, the unspecified nuke plot that you are talking about is a very real threat. And I might even say that it is probable...that is it is more likely to happen than not--- so I see from where you are coming. But take caution in your support of the Patriot Act even if you have nothing to hide or you don't commit crimes because it just might be used against you.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo The Patriot Act is a mixed bag for me. I understand its aim and agree that it would make communication between terrorists a little harder, in turn making us safer today. But in the end, I believe terrorists organizations will simply become more cryptic in their communication making much of our surveillance efforts useless. There is also the inherent danger of Constitutional liberties being threatened. I would feel much better with the previsions in the Patriot Act were the judiciary more involved. But something that I cannot understand is this Administrations insistence upon the Patriot Act while so many other security issues (which I feel are more grievous) are almost completely ignored. It's like locking your car door and leaving your windows rolled down. <<How easy would it be to get those freedoms back?>> I understand where you are coming from, but because this is still a democracy, the citizenry would still have a great deal of power. I don’t think we are threaten with tyranny just yet.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I don’t think we are threaten with tyranny just yet. << I'm afraid I do.
Originally Posted By jonvn "How could anybody with even a hint of intelligence disagree with my op?" The thing is you think you may be innocent. But there are so many laws, you likely may break one inadvertantly or in some other manner. Don't think that just because you don't think you're doing something wrong, they can't or won't come after you.
Originally Posted By mele <<"How could anybody with even a hint of intelligence disagree with my op?">> Interesting debating skills.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "<<"How could anybody with even a hint of intelligence disagree with my op?">> Interesting debating skills." I was thinking the same thing. So much for..... "Partisan politics is destroying this country. I think more effort from all parties to work together to solve todays problems is going to be the key to the survival of this country. I WILL not engage in belittling others here. Nor will I call names. All I ask is that others here try to extend me the same courtesy." ...which is what Blue State Republican put in his/her first post. Already we have no "hint of intelligence" if we disagree. Nice.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I would VOLUNTEER to allow Homeland Security moniter my phone, mail, computer, library activity, cell phone EVERYTHING. I break no laws and have nothing to fear.>> People like you scare the hell out of me. You scare me more than al Qaida does. You would give away the freedoms that make America, America. I’d go down fighting before I’d ever let that happen. You call yourselves such patriots yet you want to give it all away because 3,000 people died. I don’t care if 30,000 people die. We don’t give away our American freedom!! If people like you are ready to do that, the terrorists have already won. We all might as well go down and join the local Mosque.
Originally Posted By JohnS1 Freedoms have been compromised temporarily in nearly every war we have fought, and then restored after the conflict. I understand the lofty principle of not abandoning one's rights under the constitution, but I can also envision us all sitting there under attack by an increasingly emboldened terrorist organization, our cities burning and our populace cowering in fear, but the principled constitutionalists among us smiling because we are secure that we didn't give in to our own government's attempt to thwart our civil liberties in order to root out the terrorists among us. I guess if you're going to give up your country to terrorist attacks, it makes it easier if you think you haven't given up your principles. I happen to subscribe to the "no streetlights until absolutely necessary" rule. We have all seen it - the public demands street lights at a busy intersection, because it seems clear that someone is going to get killed one day. Nothing is done, nothing is done, nothing is done - then someone gets killed - and suddenly it is a high priority. I thought 911 would unite people and get things done. But, clearly, it's going to take a series of 911-like events to snap people out of their self-righteous civil-rights oriented views. Or maybe even then, we will allow the "ideals" of freedom which we hold so dear to keep us from doing the necessary, but uncomfortable things we have to do in order to defeat an enemy without a country, without scruples, and with a continuous supply of new recruits.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The "ideals of freedom" and effectively fighting terror are not mutually exclusive. >> I guess if you're going to give up your country to terrorist attacks, it makes it easier if you think you haven't given up your principles. << Nobody's "giving up the country". The country is more than this or that city. It's defined by who we are, and our values and beliefs. If we compromise those, then maybe we're "giving up the country" without a shot being fired.
Originally Posted By JohnS1 Civilizations grow and die, just as political systems do. Maybe we are now discovering the inherent weaknesses of our system. As wonderful as the lofty foundations of our society and political system may seem, if we follow our values and beliefs to the last breath, perhaps we are going to discover that pure democracy and American values are ultimately destined to fall under the attacks of those with no values of their own and no respect whatsoever for ours.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Republiwinies... The term for those who would sell out American Freedoms because they are afraid some wacked-out Islamo-fascist will show up some day with a nuke in a briefcase. You are giving these guys far more credit than they deserve. One you get past box-cutters these guys are way out of their league. I say screw em... let them try!
Originally Posted By JohnS1 "You are giving these guys far more credit than they deserve. One you get past box-cutters these guys are way out of their league." I sincerely hope you're right...but unfortunately I feel you are not.
