Originally Posted By Dabob2 Federal judges in Oregon and PA just struck down anti-same-sex marriage laws in those states, on Monday and Tuesday respectively. Unlike other states where state officials immediately challenged the rulings and asked for (and received) a stay of said rulings (in Idaho, Texas, Oklahoma, Virginia, for example), this did not happen in OR and PA. In Oregon both the Attorney General nor the Governor agreed with the ruling and declined to challenge it. The Governor essentially said "start issuing the licenses" - and that's what happened. The anti-gay "National Organization for Marriage" has threatened to appeal, but the judge is under no obligation to honor that, and it is likely they do not have standing... so Oregon effectively just became the 18th state with marriage equality. PA was a little trickier because while the AG refused to challenge the ruling, it wasn't so clear what the Republican Governor (Corbett) would do. But he ultimately decided that - to quote him - "the case is extremely unlikely to succeed on appeal." And so he isn't fighting it. He said he personally opposes the ruling, but this is essentially what happened in NJ; Christie said he opposed the ruling, but wouldn't fight it, and so marriage equality became a reality in NJ. Assuming no further snags here, PA just became the 19th state. I particularly liked the PA judge's language in his ruling: "That same-sex marriage causes discomfort in some does not make its prohibition constitutional," Jones wrote. "Nor can past tradition trump the bedrock constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection. Were that not so, ours would still be a racially segregated nation according to the now rightfully discarded doctrine of 'separate but equal.'" (snip) ction in striking down the prohibition. "In future generations, the label same-sex marriage will be abandoned, to be replaced simply by marriage," Jones wrote. "We are a better people than what these laws represent, and it is time to discard them into the ash heap of history." Something I particularly like? This judge was appointed by George W. Bush. (And he's not the first judge to rule in favor of marriage equality that was appointed by either Reagan or one of the Bushes, either, despite what the right wing would like you to believe.) Especially delicious? He was recommended to Bush for the federal bench by none other than Rick Santorum (!!) Oh, how I wish someone had trained a camera on Santorum when this decision came down. I can just see his head exploding now.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Oh, and with PA and OR, about 44% of Americans now live in states with marriage equality. 72% of Americans under 40 now support equality. They always used to just gauge Americans under 30. But as predicted, once someone supports equality, they don't change their minds to support inequality. The movement is all in one direction. So it's 72% of Americans under 40, and well over 50% of Americans under 50. Those clinging to inequality are literally a dying breed.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance I live in Oregon and grew up in PA, so it was especially neat for me that they did this one day apart from each other. Proud of both states! Surprised it took Oregon this long to do it, but not surprised there is no challenge to this. Portland, our most populated city by a huge margain, has more gays/lesbians per capita than any other city in the United States. At least it did a couple years ago. I guess it could have changed since I last looked. And my city, is very liberal. And there are really only maybe 3 or 4 other major cities in Oregon. Anyway, proud that Oregon/Pennsylvania made the right decision!
Originally Posted By ecdc It's really great, isn't it? Even here in Utah, the state lost a lawsuit that says they need to recognize the marriages that took place during the 17 day period before the stay was issued. The state was trying to say those marriages weren't valid, and a judge disagreed. But even our state's hyper conservative governor isn't sure if he'll appeal that ruling. He says he's just not sure it's worth the state's resources. Even Republicans are throwing in the towel. Let's hope giving up catches on.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Oh, and the other thing I meant to mention, but didn't. The other day also marked the 10 year anniversary of Massachusetts becoming the first state with marriage equality. And exactly zero of the dire things that conservatives said would surely come to pass has actually come to pass. Massachusetts has one of the highest marriage rates and one of the lowest divorce rates in the country. It was that way before marriage equality and is that way with marriage equality. In other words, the mere fact that their gay neighbors can now get married too has affected straight people not at all. Imagine that.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Maybe not this election cycle, but surely by the next one, I think you'll see politicians on both side of the aisle who declare they were "always" for marriage equality. Some will be telling the truth, others rewriting their own history creatively, but either way, it's going to happen. 10 years from now, when all 50 states will recognized same sex marriage, a majority of the population might have trouble remembering why anyone, other than their crazy ranting uncle who hates everything, ever made a big deal about any of this.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Way back in the old days (November, 2012) I was having a political discussion with a couple of people, including a (moderate) Republican, after the election. He said the GOP was going to have to moderate its stance on immigration because Hispanics are such a fast-growing demographic. I said "You know what's an even faster growing demographic? Gay-friendly straight people. The GOP is going have to moderate its stance there too." And it's true. Upwards of 80% of the young people entering the electorate this year favor marriage equality (and ENDA, etc.). That's over 80% of ALL the people, of all ethnic groups, entering the electorate this year. And next year. And the year after that. That's the very definition of "fast growing demographic." And that's not even counting the millions of older straight Americans who continue to change their minds on the issue - and all in one direction. Savvier GOP operatives like Steve Schmidt understand this already. And already you're seeing the issue downplayed or outright ignored by Republican candidates. Candidates who 10 years ago would have played it up. And that's what's gotten some of the far right folks freaked out. Just 10 years ago, in 2004, being seen as the anti-gay party was not only not a problem for the GOP, it was an electoral winner for them. Now they can't afford to be seen as the anti-gay party any more - it's now an electoral loser in all but the reddest districts, and will increasingly be so - but some of them haven't gotten the memo, and/or really continue to be anti-gay. The national party will play it down and just hope it doesn't come up. And you're right, 2oony, very soon a bunch of them will have "always" been for it.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Savvier GOP operatives like Steve Schmidt understand this already. And already you're seeing the issue downplayed or outright ignored by Republican candidates. >>> And some do not. Take a look at this guy, who thinks that standardized testing in public schools will turn your kids into homosexuals: "These people that will ... attract every one of your children to become as homosexual as they possibly can." <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2014/5/21/Fla_education_head_rejects_testing_firm_gay_claim.html">http://www.mynews13.com/conten...aim.html</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Oh, no question these idiots still exist. But this guy is a state rep and represents the part of Fla. next to the GA line - I'm assuming a deeply red district. On the national level, mark my words: you'll hear less and less about it from anyone in anything resembling a purple area. Other than the still-obligatory "I believe marriage is between one man and one woman" boilerplate, I doubt the GOP presidential candidates will emphasize it either, with the possible exception of Santorum, who pretty much can't get away with it. But even he, I predict, will assume people are familiar with his anti-gay bona fides and will emphasize his "blue collar" economic message instead.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< But this guy is a state rep and represents the part of Fla. next to the GA line - I'm assuming a deeply red district >>> I know someone that lives in Jacksonville. He says that it's more like living in Southern Georgia than Northern Florida.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Without question. The old cliché is that the farther north in Florida you go the more Southern you get.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Risking sounding like a horrible person, I don't know how normal, intelligent people can live in those areas of the country. It just feels like it would be so depressing having everyone around you think and act the way so many of them do.
Originally Posted By ecdc It's hard for me to understand the south at all. It's hard to not be resentful when I think of how much damage that region has done since...I don't know...1848? They got their way in Congress for decades, and at the first sign of finally having their power broken (at Lincoln's election) they throw a fit and leave, causing the bloodiest war in American history. And of course they can't leave well enough alone, so they crush reconstruction, institute Jim Crow, and continue to stain our country for the next 100 years in ways that continues to reverberate today. And now, in these states that talk the Tea Party talk and hate the federal government, they rely on government handouts and programs more than any region in the country. I know it's an oversimplification of events, but man I really have a hard time not despising the south.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck The Confederate flag is the swastika of the United States. It's leaders are our Taliban. Their motto should be whatever is Latin for ignorance and hatred.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The importation of slaves to the colonies was the "zero day flaw" that will likely tear the US apart at some point. It was a cancer that we were born with, that we've tried to remove but frankly it has metastasized and poisoned our politics. The only possible cure is a Confederectomy, and it is probably too late for that.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Meanwhile, in Texas, the GOP had its state convention this weekend in Fort Worth. Instead of accepting the national trend toward allowing gay marriage, it adopted a party platform to ensure the availability of psychological therapy to convert gays back to straights: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/08/us/texas-gop-gay-therapy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2">http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/08/...pt=hp_t2</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Their motto should be whatever is Latin for ignorance and hatred.<< Ignoro Facto
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < Instead of accepting the national trend toward allowing gay marriage, it adopted a party platform to ensure the availability of psychological therapy to convert gays back to straights:> Strangely enough, the new TX GOP platform actually represents a (baby) step forward, sorta kinda. They took out the passage, included for a long time previously, that says "the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society," for instance. Of course the new platform is wrong-headed at best, and really downright harmful ("reparative" therapy" doesn't work, and can cause enough harm to those forced into it that some states have banned it). It makes the pretense that they have "nothing against" gay people - they just want to "help" them. Which is rubbish, but still represents a certain backing away from the flat-out demonization that was there before. It's terrible, and yet still a step up (of a sort) from saying they "tear at the fabric of society."
Originally Posted By SuperDry You may be right, but it's still too backward for my liking. Unless, you like the likes of Michele Bachmann.
