Originally Posted By barboy I stumbled upon this 'Spike TV' program last night called "Surviving Disaster". The program shows us how being proactive when invloved in emergency events like floods, fires and plane highjackings can save our lives. I watched the passenger jet highjacking episode. GIVEN: 1)highjackers have already slit one passenger's throat just to demonstrate that they mean business and to encourage compliance for the rest of the passengers. 2)one highjacker has already entered the cockpit and closed the cockpit door (and presumably locked it) 3)at lest one 'sleeper' highjacker blended in with the other passengers who were herded to the back of the plane. The 'sleeper' revealed himself when one passenger tried to rush the 2 highjackers in the cabin alone. 4) There are 4 known highjackers on the plane. 5) highjackers have made no known demands(presumably because they are on a suicide mission) The show tells us if we're ever highjacked in midair then gather 3 to 5 more passengers and do a surprise rush on the assailants(sounds like proper advice so far). After overpowering the 3 highjackers in the cabin we are to round up belts, shoelaces and/or computer cords to tie them up. After tieing up the 3 then proceed to storm the cockpit to retake the plane since we are to assume that the one highjacker who made it inside is flying the plane. WTF!!! Is there any sane person here who after completely overpowering these highjackers would tie them up and keep them alive instead of taking a lady's high heel and bashing in their faces until dead or using a belt to garote them. This is a clear case of PC BS on steroids. Once completely subdued these assailants should die if our ultimate goal is to STAY ALIVE.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt the reason to keep them alive is so they can be beaten within an inch of thier lives for the rest of thier lives in prison
Originally Posted By gadzuux I saw this show - a few weeks ago. Our show host is like a latter day Rambo who has an answer for everything. If he's not on your hijacked flight, you're screwed. One thing that caught my eye - he instructs a woman passenger to set her cell phone alarm to sound in a few minutes, and then places it on the carpet and slides it forward several rows "to create a distraction". I don't know about you, but it would take me an hour to figure out how to do that on my cell phone. Does anybody remember the movie "War of the Roses" with Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas? There's a scene where his house is on fire, drapes blazing - and he's anxiously reading the instruction tag on the fire extinguisher. "Step 1 ... Remove Pin ..." while the room is burning down around him. That would be me.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<This is a clear case of PC BS on steroids.>> Not really - this is a television show on a channel that can be watched by anyone - including kids. Do you really think they're going to explain how to kill the highjackers? Of course not!
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Besides, you'd probably want to keep a few alive for questioning afterwards. You never know what other plots might be going on!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>One thing that caught my eye - he instructs a woman passenger to set her cell phone alarm to sound in a few minutes, and then places it on the carpet and slides it forward several rows "to create a distraction". << Does he really believe that a midi version of "My Humps" is going to distract 2 out of 3 hijackers? That's the plan?
Originally Posted By barboy ///Not really - this is a television show on a channel that can be watched by anyone including kids./// The show takes a more adult/candid approach in escaping disasters---- the show prides itself on realism. ///Do you really think they're going to explain how to kill the highjackers? Of course not!/// The program graphically showed a highjacker cutting a passenger's throat. If the show were living up to its realistic approach to staying alive then it should have encouraged killing the highjackers and not tying them up. Tying up and keeping them alive is a completely stupid thing to do if survival is the goal. It goes back to PC on steroids...... 'PC' because there is an erroneous assumption that once an aggressor is subdued then he/she should be afforded certain respect as a "prisoner".
Originally Posted By barboy ///Besides, you'd probably want to keep a few alive for questioning afterwards. You never know what other plots might be going on!/// Do you realize how absurd that is?
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<The program graphically showed a highjacker cutting a passenger's throat.>> Interesting - I didn't know that. Well, maybe you do have a point - it would probably have been more realistic to show them being killed. But still, I can't help thinking that this show was better off showing them capturing the terrorists than killing them. This way the victims didn't become like their captors - they maintained their humanity. (Or something like that!!) ;-)
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Do you realize how absurd that is?>> Why? What if this was a 9/11 style plot with other terrorist cells scattered around? Wouldn't they want to question these terrorists to see if they could get information about the other groups, and hopefully save lives?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Assuming you were able to subdue the terrorists, leaving only the one in the cockpit to deal with, why would you want to spend valuable time killing the first 2 terrorists? Wouldn't that create additional noise, take more energy, and make it all the more likely to ruin the element of surprise on the remaining hijacker?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I'm trying to figure out how it makes sense to take out everyone else and save the remaining terrorist flying the plane for last. Presumably, anyone else capable of flying the plane is dead, and pilot terrorist would just do what United Flight 93 did. Or am I missing something?
Originally Posted By barboy ///Assuming you were able to subdue the terrorists, leaving only the one in the cockpit to deal with, why would you want to spend valuable time killing the first 2 terrorists?/// Thank you for the question----FINALLY it is asked. You kill the terrorists even though they are completely subdued for the following reasons: 1) LACK OF QUALITY BINDING MATERIALS ON BOARRD. Using makeshift tying devices like belts and shoelaces do not tie nearly as effectively as rope, especially when performed by the novice or everyday passengers(I would assume that there are no Navy Seals on board or very qualified knot makers) --- therefore there is a respectable chance of escape. 2)TIME. It would take far longer to properly tie them up using crude materials than to just stomp on their faces or choke them. Every minute counts to get control of the plane and make contact to authorities before fighter planes shoot the passenger plane down or before the one in the cockpit decides to crash the plane. 3)SLEEPERS. What if there were one or two more 'sleeper terrorists' hanging with the the general population who would come over and untie their buddy. As a legitimate passenger there is no way to know if there are more so you kill the known ones just in case. 4) HIGHJACKER'S DISREGARD FOR LIFE. That means if they break free from the binds one should assume that they will try to kill again(and as stated before there is a chance to break free from crude tie up jobs done by novices).
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It would take far longer to properly tie them up using crude materials than to just stomp on their faces or choke them.<< Mmmm hmmm. It takes a surprising amount of strength, and would make a considerable amount of noise, trying to kill a person with your bare hands. >>That means if they break free from the binds one should assume that they will try to kill again(and as stated before there is a chance to break free from crude tie up jobs done by novices).<< What, are people going to tie up a hijacker and then just leave him there, like the villians in James Bond movies used to do, while he fiddles with loosening the restraints? After tying him up, half a dozen passengers sit on him, he isn't moving anywhere. If we're to believe that these guys are dumb enough to be "distracted" by a cell phone, tying them up should be easy enough.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What if there were one or two more 'sleeper terrorists' hanging with the the general population who would come over and untie their buddy.<< Wouldn't it be more likely that is one or more of these sleepers saw the passengers subduing one of the hijackers, he'd alert the person flying the plane rather than taking time to untie his fellow terrorist?
Originally Posted By barboy ///I'm trying to figure out how it makes sense to take out everyone else and save the remaining terrorist flying the plane for last./// Passengers were herded into the back of the plane and 2 terrorits separated the passengers from the cockpit. To get to the terrorist in the cockpit passengers have to get past the 2 terrorista in the cabin. ///Presumably, anyone else capable of flying the plane is dead, and pilot terrorist would just do what United Flight 93 did. Or am I missing something?/// No, you got it(I think). And that is why time is essential. There is an order of operation: 1. take out the 2 terrorists blocking access to the cockpit 2. bash through the cockpit door and get to the terrorist inside 3. make contact with authorities 4. follow instructions from a pilot on the ground on how to land the plane
Originally Posted By barboy ///Mmmm hmmm. It takes a surprising amount of strength/// not if bashing in a face with a high heel or taking a car key and jamming in a throat or poking out eyes. Remember this is performed after the terrorist is held down by 3 men. ///and would make a considerable amount of noise, trying to kill a person with your bare hands./// I don't see why noise factors in.
Originally Posted By barboy ///What, are people going to tie up a hijacker and then just leave him there, like the villians in James Bond/// GOOD ONE! LOL
Originally Posted By barboy ///Wouldn't it be more likely that is one or more of these sleepers saw the passengers subduing one of the hijackers, he'd alert the person flying the plane rather than taking time to untie his fellow terrorist?/// I don't know
Originally Posted By barboy To make a long story short once the assailants are subdued it's better to quickly drive car keys in their eyes and throats and/or choke them silly rather than look for binding materials and do some crude tie up job that takes too much time and allows for the possibility of escape. Those who are subdued must have a 0% chance to get back in the game.
