Originally Posted By Doobie This topic is for discussion of the January 17th Guest Column on Epcot <a href="News-ID107120.asp" target="_blank">http://LaughingPlace.com/News-ID107120.asp</a>
Originally Posted By kevram Everything he said about Epcot is correct. People look forward to the fun/educational aspect that the park can give. Sponsors need to be more involved. One other thing that I would have to say about Test Track is what is after the ride itself. You walk through a GM showroom and can give info about their vehicles. GM is taking a great advantage to this medium of catching a large number of potential customers. The other sponsors should look at what GM does and follow suit. Also, I am happy that Metlife is no longer sponsoring Wonders of Life. I had a problem with a company that it major part of business is life and auto insurance. A major health company(i.e. insurance, HMO, health equipment) should sponsor Wonders of Life. Also, an idea, is why not have the inside become a major health fair that guests can get some valuable health related information from professionals and not from characters. I could go on, but the columnnist is right on that Disney is missing the boat big time at Epcot. You can also look at how World Showcase helps someone understand a country, move that idea to Future World.
Originally Posted By bwanabob Greg, thanks for your report. "I understand your points. They make sense, but I didn't feel the same as you, and here's why:" That being said: I can understand your desire for more "horizontal" than a "vertical" educational experience in the Future World attractions, but we don't teach kids that way for the most part in public schools either. Kids learn "subjects" vertically...it could be tough at a family park to implement a more "horizontal" learning focus without leaving some kids out of the experience. I'm not saying that kids can't learn it...but it's supposed to be a park for everyone...all ages...so you do need to find a balance that will please visitors of all ages and educational levels. Also, you like Test Track, but they certainly don't incorporate any horizontal education into that attraction. I think GM might find that hard to do...let's see...let's talk about the environment and energy and how GM's (and other auto companies')development of the automobile has created huge land use and environmental problems for our country, destroyed many urban centers do to the proliferation of suburbs (which are possible because of the automobile.) Why stop there? The auto companies purposefully and systematically destroyed public transportation infrastructure in several cities to create our dependence on the automobile...I haven't even mentioned our dependence on other countries for fuel...anyway...it could be difficult. As far as it being called Future World, I think the attractions do point towards the future. In the Universe of Energy, we're left with the thought that the only limitless energy source is brain power...in JIYI we're told our imagination can lead to creative solutions to problems in the future...in the Land they are testing new methods of growing crops that have a possible application in the future. Anyway, I did enjoy reading your article. Good food for thought...I just didn't agree on all your points.
Originally Posted By woody >>(And of course, it's okay for me to say that Spaceship Earth is lousy, but when someone else says it, hey, them's fightin' words!)<< This rings very true. Most people should listen to the criticism instead of fighting them especially if they are liable to do the same. The article is good. The EPCOT name doesn't make sense, but I think it's more a homage to Walt Disney than anything else. It's an evolution of his ideas for an IDEAL community. Instead, it changed into a sampler of the real world and what it can be. I don't agree that the Future World doesn't make sense. I believe its about current and future technology and how our lives can improve in the future. The Future World pavilions might be "vertical", but I can't think of a better way to change them. However, they might already be changing with the GM Test Track and SPACE. These are not "vertical" specific attractions, but "vertical" with a more integrated perspective. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to read your take on DCA.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA Good article. Epcot is my second favorite Disney Park (to Disneyland), and on our last visit we really were surprised and really enjoyed 'Test Track.' I'm not sure every new thing has to be an 'E-Ticket/Major' Ride, but it does provide a nice balance to the other slower stuff. Just an offshoot. When the name was EPCOT Center (all CAPS), it made perfect sense to me. In my feeble mind, it was designed to be a tribute to the EPCOT concept that Walt had been developing just before he died. Although it didn't come to happen as an actual city, I've always felt that this quote (while commenting on the future city) could also be speaking to what EPCOT Center was. "EPCOT will take its cue from the new ideas and new technologies that are now emerging from the creative centers of American industry. It will be a community of tomorrow that will never be completed, but will always be introducing, and testing and demonstrating new materials and new systems. And EPCOT will always be a showcase to the world of ingenuity and imagination of American free enterprise." Now that the name has been changed to Epcot (Capital E -- lower case the rest of it) -- it's just sort of become a meaningless word -- it is neither 'Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow' or anything else.
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe Excellent article. I share almost none of the author's opinions on the original EPCOT Center pavilions, but understand his point of view as stated. Fab
Originally Posted By aquamoptop I dont see any problem with focusing on one subject and teaching about it in an attraction. One thing to remember is that the average guest does not focus well on what is being said to them in an attraction. If you have a "horizontal" subject going on like the one you described in your example, you wont be getting the point across to your guest. Its kind of like Alien Encounter, soooo much is going on there at once that the average guest doesn't even grasp what just happened. (one of the big problems with the attraction, IMO) If this is supposed to be an educational park then the focus should be on teaching with entertainment, not teaching that gets all jumbled up and so confusing that the guest walks off the attraction wondering what it was all about. Please understand that I am not saying that Disney should play down intellectually for the guest but I do think that what they have been doing works fine, they just need to find a high tech, more entertaining way to do it. Test track does just that and i do agree that the future of EPCOT should go in that direction, BUT I dont think it should all be turned into thrill rides and speed rides. Disney is supposed to be family oriented and ride like Spaceship Earth and JII and the land should be preserved for those who dont like E-ticket attractions.
Originally Posted By wdwgreggy I agree and yet I disagree. The purpose of Epcot is, of course, education. Why Disney is so scared of it I have no idea. I do think the author is incorrect in the "horizontal" learning approach. I agree with the above reader that the children can only handle one thing at a time, and the direction the park takes must be done with children in the forefront. After all, in the words of Whitney Houston, the children are our future. When I first visited WDW, specifically EPCOT, as a kid, I was absolutely AMAZED. There was groundbreaking never-before-seen stuff that was YEARS ahead of its time. It was GREAT! Had I been a local as opposed to from the west coast, I'm sure I would have gone all the time. I can see looking back where Disney wanted to go. They wanted to encourage dreaming. They wanted to inspire for the future of our country and our world. Pretty noble goals, actually. But apparently the ability to dream and inspire comes with a pricetag too hefty for Disney these days. Upon my return trip this past year, nearly 20 years later, the amazement and inspiration were certainly less abundant. Test Track is the only attraction there that gets it right. It does inspire to learn more about the manufacture and design and history of automobiles. It will inspire kids and adults alike to help plan and design for the future. It's just a lot of fun, and you get to learn about a major industry in our world. The current pavilions need to follow in that same pattern. And a high-budget E-ticket with all the bells and whistles isn't necessarily needed in all cases. There are plenty of ways each pavilion could incorporate a fun attraction and provide an experience all could enjoy, learn from, and be inspired from. That, ultimately, should be the goal of Epcot, and I hope that the rumors of "Space" being the last planned improvement over the next 5 years or so prove to be false!!
Originally Posted By BuzzLightyear84 Great article, and I must say I agree with most of the author wrote (except about the American Adventure, which is one of my favorite Epcot attractions.) I agree that Test Track is a great addition to Future World, as I'm sure Mission: Space will be. Allowing Epcot's educational message to be told while still being entertaining to the average park guests has always been its major struggle. >>(And of course, it's okay for me to say that Spaceship Earth is lousy, but when someone else says it, hey, them's fightin' words!)<< Don't wory about those fightin' words. I'm not going to say Spaceship Earth is lousey, but there is something I would like to say about it. Although it's a great and well done ride, in my opinion, it lacks much of the entertainment value that many of Disney's other Animatronic-based attractions, such as Pirates of the Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion, or the origional Jounrey Into Imagination, possess. I know it was going for something completly diffrent from it's predecessors with its educational theme, but I still feel that it is probably my least favorite of the current WDW Animatronic dark rides (since JIYI is closed). I'm not looking for a fight, that's just my opinion.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I think the Imagineers of yesteryear have had the right idea, and the Imagineers who have "taken" over are losing sight of history. Even though the concept of "history" is contrast to a "Future World", Disney "history" did in fact have vast levels of success. The glow of neon, the shimmer of polished stainless steel and Alucobond, the wisk of glittering fiber optic strands, the smell of roses, the glee of Figment, the glide of take-me-there vehicles are slowly, but surely being replaced by "behind the scene" cluttered workbenches, dusty computers with cables strung about, and rack mounted terminals of blinking LED's. Yesteryear's themes of humorous and warm scenes of the past merged into inspiring and cheerful visions of the future (World of Motion, Journey into Imagination, The Living Seas, Universe of Energy, Horizons) are being reworked into opened backdrop views of behind-the-scenes "How it really works" disaters (Universe of Energy, Test Track, Journey into your Imagination, Tower of Terror, Space Mountian, etc.). Next time you go to WDW, count how many attractions are themed toward disaters. I can count several... Muppet 3-D (even tho it's hilarious), Universe of Energy, Dinosaur, Test Track (designed to predict future crashs and other disaters), Drew Carrey's Sound Theater, Star Tours, Indiana Jones Stunt Theater, Backstage tour earthquake/flood, Kilimanjiro Safaris (with the poachers), Body Wars (with getting sucked into the artery) etc. I'm so glad to see Rockin Roller Coaster missed this popular theme, and made it just plain fun. Today's Future World hardly reminds me of the future at all. Quite, frankly, it reminds me of work. I don't want to see work while I'm on vacation. I want to see work while I'm at work. The que area of Test Track is a mess. It reminds me of projects that will be overdue the moment I get home. The "upgraded" Journey into Imagination" looks like my company's back office at the beginning of the ride. No wonder Eisner hated it. Where's Dreamfinder? In Space Mountain (at MK), we used to go into outer space for good reason. Now, it's to deliver Fed Ex packages?? Gimme a break. When I go into orbit, you'll be nuts if you think I'm bringing your package with me. Why, pray tell, was one of my favorite attractions "Horizons" so bad? And boy do I miss my favorite of ALL, "World of Motion". "Mission: Space" had better be G-O-O-D. I won't even mention the "Ellen Degenerous Energy Adventure" What are they thinking?? Bring back the future to Future World, and other parks. Let us leave work at home. The designer of Jimminy Cricket (Ward Kimball) conceived World of Motion. I supposed there will never again be Imagineers like him.
Originally Posted By OTownDis Good post mrkthompson, World of Motion rocked! Especially near the end w/ THREE Superspeed tunnels and the city of the future. We will NEVER See attractions like that again.......
Originally Posted By Jo28ker I would like to say that, although I understand much of what was said about EPCOT, I would like to add that the park itself still fills me with a sense of wonder whenever I go through the front gates. From the talking trashcan to the central fountain and the fiberoptic stepping stones, EPCOT creates a Magic and charm all it's own. It remains a two day park (at least) any time I have gone. IMO the best thing about EPCOT are the National Pavilions. Rides at this park are secondary and should not be the main focus here. Rather inoventions, ideas, and culture are (or should be) the focus. It is not Disneyland or the California Adventure, both of which focuses on the rides. This park has thought and fun hand in hand.
Originally Posted By nats When EPCOT first opened it was indeed a family entertainment place. Communicore was fun as well as entertaining. Innoventions is a series of commercials for the companies that sponsor them. The original universe of energy was educational as well as entertaining. The Degeneres version is a sham as well as a shame. I was disappointed with test track. They could have slowed it down a bit and explained what really happens on a test track. It is too sensational. The new journey into your imagination was a disgrace. They should have left the original in tact and possibly added to it. Living seas is a good attraction but does not go far enough into sea exploration. I like the land especially the country fair like food court on the lower level. EPCOT should always be a fun place as well as educational. There is no place there for thrill rides. Should always be full family enertainment. .
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe The designer of Jimminy Cricket (Ward Kimball) conceived World of Motion. I supposed there will never again be Imagineers like him.>> Marc Davis told me that he'd been working on the design of the attraction when he left Disney, and that his name was taken off. The charming, funny bits are Marc's and the wacky, sidesplitting stuff is Ward's. Fab
Originally Posted By Dlmusic I have to disagree with the article, although it was well presented. EPCOT to me has gone almost completely downhill since it opened. That doesn't mean I don't still think it's a great park, but the last 20 years have been pretty much wasted.
Originally Posted By arstogas >>Disney is so wary of being didactic that it won't let itself take the time to teach anything useful to its audience. It's not a difficult problem to solve: ironically, forgetting the entertainment and being merely educational could be sufficient.<< I have no doubt that Greg loves Disney and Disney parks. Most people ENJOY or are fond of, Disney parks. But like 95% of the happy citizenry, he's just kind of clueless as to what makes them charming and what makes them "work": "I'd rather entertain people and hope they're educated, than educate them and hope they're entertained." - Walt Disney Thank goodness it's called Walt Disney Imagineering instead of Greg Maletic Imagineering. I don't think I'd want to visit a park THAT PLACE was responsible for... (and for the record, mark me down as one who got off TESTTRACK and wondered where the rest of the attraction went to...) The Dumbing Down of Epcot is definitely not what we're in need of. Add the thrill rides, but don't take away the sense of whimsy and wonder. They're in short enough availability these days.
Originally Posted By ScroogeMcDuck "not only is Test Track the best thing at Epcot, it in fact points the way toward what Epcot should have been, and still could be." I don't think that's fair. What Epcot originally SHOULD have been was a "city of tomorrow" as Walt envisioned it. But, eventually it became an educational, serious theme park celebrating life and our world. So who the heck are you to say that Test Track is what Epcot should've been??
Originally Posted By ScroogeMcDuck And why are you all so anti-Epcot... I happen to love it! How can you watch Reflections of Earth or walk through the World Showcase without loving that park... Oh well.
Originally Posted By SNIDLEY Wow, Scrooge, Perfect....100%,,,Dont care for the American Adventure Huh?..I think that says it all !
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Epcot makes me think. I can go to MK, AK, or DMGM for lots of fun but I go to Epcot to enjoy who we are as a people. I love to run into natives of a particular country I visit in World Showcase. Their impressions of the representation of their society are generally very positive. As for Future World, I think they did their best to hold the attention of the younger generation while trying to maintain the focus of the park. The butchering of Imagination aside, kids still buzz in Future World and that makes it fun for me.
