Originally Posted By RC Collins Atheists United For the Separation of History and State... no, wait.. let me start again... Americans United for the Separation of Church and State (except they really don't believe that, or they'd fight to excuse priests and ordained ministers from prosecution) is trying to ban C.S. Lewis' Narnia books from public schools. I can only imagine how long before they ask for an official ban on the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers. Here's an article that points out the absurdity of something like this: = = = = = <a href="http://www.worldmag.com/subscriber/displayarticle.cfm?id=11279" target="_blank">http://www.worldmag.com/subscr iber/displayarticle.cfm?id=11279</a> Ban the Culture It's the only way to protect schoolchildren from Christian lit | by Gene Edward Veith Quotes: >>Many public schools already use The Chronicles of Narnia in their reading curriculum. But after Florida governor Jeb Bush started promoting The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe in a statewide reading contest called "Just Read, Florida," the critics are wanting to ban that book. C.S. Lewis' classic, set to premiere as a major motion picture Dec. 9, has a clear Christian message... -SNIP- Such a clear gospel message, according to some civil libertarians, has no place in the public schools. Barry Lynn, director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, says, "This whole contest is just totally inappropriate because of the themes of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. It is simply a retelling of the story of Christ." Ironically, those comments came out a week after Banned Books Week, celebrating books people have tried to censor. (According to the Banned Books Resource Guide from the American Library Association, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is on the list. So is the Bible.) -SNIP- If it should be unlawful to have students read books that have a Christian theme, the problem is even worse than civil libertarians realize. -SNIP- We'll also need to ban Charles Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities, Herman Melville's Billy Budd, and William Faulkner's Light in August. -SNIP- Shakespeare's comedies have some bawdy stuff that we might permit, but their plots tend to involve some sin, discord, and a death sentence resolved only with some sort of death, resurrection, and forgiveness. In the tragedies, Hamlet worries about hell, Macbeth yearns to be cleansed of guilt, and Lear—evoking the Christian Right conspiracy—resolves to be "God's spy." In the second tier of the greatest English authors, we have Milton, with his epic poem on Adam, Eve, and the Fall (explicitly biblical and creationist); Spenser, with his combination of fantasy and Christian allegory (that influenced the banned Lewis); and Chaucer, whose Canterbury Tales include some dirty ones we could use, but what if students read the tales of the Pardoner, the Franklin, or the Parson? -SNIP- Even post-Enlightenment, we've got problems. Jonathan Swift was a minister, whose Gulliver's Travels ridicules human depravity. Hawthorne too writes about original sin, a Christian belief that might interfere with children's self-esteem. We could do as the colleges are doing, change the canon of books considered great. But when we replace the white males with women writers, it gets even worse! Anne Bradstreet, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Christina Rossetti, and Flannery O'Connor are even more explicitly Christian. So are many of the classic black authors, such as Phillis Wheatley and Frederick Douglass.<< = = = = = You know, this is yet one more dispute we could do away with if we'd just support the separation of SCHOOL and State: <a href="http://honestedu.org/" target="_blank">http://honestedu.org/</a> No need to have our lawmakers arguing over curriculum, class sizes, uniforms, dress codes, discipline, sports, or a million other issues that come up when everyone is forced to pay for schools via taxes.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh This is as stupid as Christian organizations banning Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut i understand banning Harry Potter simply because their bad literature.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The gospel message is going to go right over the heads of so many of the people who see the movie. Just like it goes over the head of so many people who hear it every Sunday in real life.
Originally Posted By FaMulan Frankly, as a child I thought "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" was a wonderful fantasy story. I didn't realize until I was a teenager or older that it was a Christain allegory.
Originally Posted By DlandDug This is odd. I am trying to find specific information about this story on the web, and having no luck finding the primary souce. I have found that the initial story supposedly ran in the Palm Beach Post. Apparently the reaction was not to the book, per se, but rather to a Florida state sponsored contest that encourages kids to read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. But I cannot find the initial Post story. Anyone else want to make an attempt?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<Apparently the reaction was not to the book, per se, but rather to a Florida state sponsored contest that encourages kids to read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.>> You would think that atheists who don't want kids reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and christians who don't want kids reading Harry Potter, would actually appreciate that kids are reading.
Originally Posted By SuperDry It's very interesting what's happened here. Much as in the creation/evolution in the classroom debate, the people that support what might be called the Religious Right's point of view come out and equate their opponents as being "atheist." As far as I can tell, this is done in the same spirit as anyone that disagrees with the war in Iraq as being "liberal" - it's meant to be a pejorative term, at least by those that decide such things. We see in post #9 the use of "atheist" to paint using a broad brush. And post #1 contains two gems: <<< Atheists United For the Separation of History and State... no, wait.. let me start again... Americans United for the Separation of Church and State >>> Did you know that that organization is currently headed by the Reverend Barry Lynn, a minister with the United Church of Christ? Do you suppose he's an atheist? Or is it possible that some people of faith may want to keep gov't out of religious issues? In fact it's true that most people that believe in separation of church and state are not not atheist. <<< (except they really don't believe that, or they'd fight to excuse priests and ordained ministers from prosecution) >>> This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read. RC, did you come up with this one yourself?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 If you read my entire post: <<You would think that atheists who don't want kids reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and christians who don't want kids reading Harry Potter, would actually appreciate that kids are reading.>> You would realize that I took both atheists and christians to task on a rather ridiculous stance.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< You would realize that I took both atheists and christians to task on a rather ridiculous stance. >>> I did in fact read your entire post. Perhaps you didn't read mine: My point was not that you were taking a one-sided point of view, but that you seemed to be saying "people that want religion kept out of the classroom = atheists."
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 No the meaning of my post is that I'm against the idea people telling others what they can and can't read. Being an avid reader that's what I object to.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut well I think religious groups should keep their noses out of public school and the general public should keep their noses out of religious schools. I mean I wouldnt agree for any kids to have to follow any religious belief in a public school. But Im not for denying them either, if you want to teach religion do it in a private school. Of course it would have to be easier for a parent to say they want their kid to go to a certain school. Banning of books is never good. And my quip about Harry Potter was simply that, a joke. I just dont like the books, but I wouldnt deny anyone who wants to read them.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>i understand banning Harry Potter simply because their bad literature.<< Tell me about it. I never finished reading the Order of The Phoenix. It was so bad that I gave up halfway through.
Originally Posted By swampdog This is ridiculous. The original post sounded a little fishy so I went looking for someone who actually proposes banning the Narnia books. I couldn't find anything. The organization referred to by the original copied post, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State has exactly one reference on their website to a letter written to Jeb Bush stating that they think it is inappropriate to use the power of the state to promote this book through the schools. NOWHERE do they suggest pulling the book(s) from the shelves, making them hard for kids to access, or otherwise banning or restricting the book. In fact, I was able to find this link on yahoo <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/20051109/cr_ct/complaintnarniareadingcontestforceschristianmessageonstudents" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ct/200 51109/cr_ct/complaintnarniareadingcontestforceschristianmessageonstudents</a> which quotes the organization as saying -- We are not advocating censorship and we are not asking the book to be removed from the contest," said Robert Boston, AUSCS's assistant director of communications. "But we are asking that the contest be expanded and that other books be added to the list. Some students may not feel comfortable reading a Christian allegory." --- So enough with the "liberals want to ban books" fable. It's a lie. Please stop.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <So enough with the "liberals want to ban books" fable. It's a lie. Please stop.> Thank you for setting the record straight. But don't be surprised if they don't stop.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Tom, I was referring to the people peddling the "liberals want to ban books" fable.
Originally Posted By swampdog Sorry, Tom. Let me be more clear. The original poster claims that liberals want to ban "Narnia" from schools. I'm pretty good at finding information on the web and I can't find a single reference that suggests this is true. So I have to conclude that the original poster is not telling the truth. In my church we call that "bearing false witness". I may have missed something, I only looked briefly for this, but like I said, I'm pretty good at finding info. If you can find a single reputable reference suggesting that liberals want this book banned, please provide the evidence and I will publicly apologize. Otherwise, I stand by my statement. Please stop lying about liberals wanting to ban books.
