Originally Posted By Mr X I've been checking out some right winger message boards lately, and the situation is truly pathetic. First of all, there is the overwhelming, seething hatred of all things "Obama", but that's not the point of this topic (it is scary though! I thought they loathed Clinton, but this is 10X more intense). Anyway, I've noticed more and more that they are completely fractured and getting "sicker" by the day. There are a number of level-headed, "regular" (for lack of a better word) conservatives both here in LP and "out there" who see this, and are extremely concerned. The thing is, the infighting is reaching critical mass, and the reason I say they've gone insane is that in their panic they are going the absolute OPPOSITE direction that they should be in order to recover as a political power. Anyone who contradicts them, or suggests that they re-think their strategy or whatever, is labeled a "rino" or some sort of traitor and told to "get lost". Also, they seem to be convinced that the path to their recovery is to become even MORE extremist to the right, which in my view is the perfect path towards killing their cause outright. I must admit, I find it rather amusing. However, I am also concerned because I don't believe it's in the best interests of the nation to have one political party dominate the landscape. If they keep down this path though, I'm convinced that's exactly what they are doing. Longtime conservatives I know are growing disgusted and considering abandoning the party (if they haven't already), and that's their lifeblood right there. It seems as though the lunatics are truly running the asylum at this point. Wow.
Originally Posted By Mr X At the moment, moderates are voting Democrat in large numbers. Honestly, all this talk from Gingrich and others about leaving the Republican party and forming their own is probably what it's going to take to return the Republican party to center-right moderation (although I frankly think it should be the other way around, since the name is so tarnished now...the "reasonable Republicans" should walk, and form a party called "the Moderate-Conservative party" or something). If that occurs, we might see something of the same occur on the left as well. Like a snake shedding its' skin or something.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Good all the better for the moderates on to take over this country." That wouldn't be a bad thing, either. The lunatic conservatives fringe started coming unglued during the election last year. We all remember the youtube videos of rednecks outside McCain rallies calling Obama a Muslim and a terrorist. They tried everything they could to discredit him and nothing worked. Then the Republicans went down in flames on November 4. I was hoping that if Obama succeeded in his first 100 days these folks would calm down and at least acknowledge his accomplishments and admit that they were wrong. What appears to be happening is that the more he succeeds, the more agitated these people get and the more lies and distortions they make up. It really is a bit alarming.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Who are these disaffected conservatives supposed to turn to? Who are they going to support? Gingrich? Who famously 'opposes' evolution? You might as well be opposed to weather. Palin? Who whipped these foamers up to begin with? All that red-meat rhetoric about "palling around with terrorists"? Some people really did believe it. Romney? Not the worst choice, but he's toast with the christians - not only for being mormon, but for being wishy-washy on their key issues like gays and abortion. And there's the schism with the GOP - you can't win WITH the christian right and you can't win WITHOUT them. Republicans made their own bed when they ceded so much of their power to the right-wing christian voting block. After decades of pandering to the righties, neither side has anything to show for it - either the christian agenda or the republican party. It was a blind alley that led nowhere. But that kind of hindsight does nothing to solve the problem. Without strong support and mobilization from the christian right, the republican party is dead in the water. But currying their favor forces them into such extreme positions that they lose any chance of a coherent message for moderates. In two days we'll see footage of them clamoring about taxes during their "tea parties" on April 15. But what exactly are they protesting? The bush administration tax code? That's what we have right now. Or maybe they're worried about an increase in taxes for those making over $250k per year. Except none of the people jumping around and shouting and waving signs earn anywhere near that amount. Or maybe they'll be protesting the bank bailout and the TARP program and AIG - the very programs created and ramrodded through by the bush administration. No - they're responding to their true "leaders" - the radio and tv pundits who deftly pull their strings and manipulate them into false and misguided outrage. In other words, good ol' fashioned demagoguery - cheap political theater - completely devoid of any actual meaning or content. Do you think they'll even notice? Nahh. The republican party deserves every indignation that comes their way, and many more that they're being spared.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Actually, Bernard Goldberg of all people laid the smackdown on Hannity just last night. "We can't be like the Left was with Bush. We have to keep from trying to find fault in everything the president does or says." I was shocked. Bernard Goldberg! I totally agree with Bernard on this.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad What ever happened to morals and character? When did we lose our ethics? Where will it end? Why is everyone so full of hate on BOTH sides only to pretend, "they are the crazy ones, not us!" "They are going insane!" "They are going down as a party!" "If they would only stop and think..." Blah, blah, blah... Both sides are screaming the same old tired worn out shizz. "But this is different!" No. It's not.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Why is everyone so full of hate on BOTH sides only to pretend, "they are the crazy ones, not us!"*** Okay, I'll begin this with the caveat that there are certainly crazy elements on the left winger side too... HOWEVER, it seems like something of a cop-out that I've been hearing a LOT lately whenever some totally insane, perhaps even treasonous stuff is thrown out there to claim "well yeah, BOTH sides suck". Yes, and no. Sure there are crazy folks on an issue who take things too far. But with Bush, the vibe I got was "he sucks, we're in big trouble, oh no!"... With Obama I'm getting "he needs to FAIL! we should take up arms, he's a commie ruskie terrorist! if we don't do something, America is LOST!". Perhaps I missed some of the craziest left winger rhetoric (I'm sure it was out there), but the scary part about this is that it's far more incendiary, AND honestly the part about it that scares me the most is that by and large the extremists on the right wing side (and, more generally, the bulk of the "hardcore" right wingers) are lacking in intelligence, and heavily armed. Bad combo.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, from a conservative standpoint I think it is fair to say "we" (and I use that turn cautiously) believe some of his policies SHOULD fail. I would argue the extremists on BOTH sides are dangerous. That is, in fact, why they are called extremists. Do you think the hatred for Obama is any more intense than the hatred for Bush? I don't think so. The rhetoric might be notched up but the hatred for Bush was pretty blatant in the last 4 years.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad "but the scary part about this is that it's far more incendiary" No. It's not.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<are lacking in intelligence, and heavily armed.>>> Armed with what? You mean the media? you mean Fox News?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Do you think the hatred for Obama is any more intense than the hatred for Bush? I don't think so.*** I do. ***The rhetoric might be notched up but the hatred for Bush was pretty blatant in the last 4 years.*** And yet they hate Obama even more (your term was "notched up", right?) after less than 4 months. I shudder to think what things will looking like 3 years from now. But, at the same time, I'm curious...I'm thinking the rhetoric will be beyond reason at that point, but not many people will be listening assuming things don't get a whole lot worse (if so, all bets are off).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***but the scary part about this is that it's far more incendiary" No. It's not.*** It really is, DVC. I've been reading multiple topics discussing where and how to take up arms in a revolution against the government, starting soon (before it's too late). It permeates all the conservative boards I perused, and they sound damned scared and pretty serious. If there was any sort of extremist sentiment that went THAT far against Bush, it was not widely found. I certainly don't recall any topics of that nature on LP, loathed though Bush really was.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<<<are lacking in intelligence, and heavily armed.>>> Armed with what? You mean the media? you mean Fox News?*** As I wrote, I mean the extremist right wingers who are loaded to bear.
Originally Posted By Mr X Screw me, I tried to use a term I wasn't familiar enough with. Loaded for bear, I should've written. And yes, the stuff I've been reading include people who have not only stockpiled weapons in order to overtake the government, the have HIDDEN weapons all around for the day that "Obama the Socialist starts takin em!". Like I said, dumb and armed.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I Googled "Bush Hatred" and "Obama Hatred". 96 months of Bush generated 37,400,000 "hits" for Bush Hatred...or 398,500 hits per month in office. 4 months of Obama generated 2,980,000 "hits" for Obama Hatred...or 745,000 hits per month. So, yes...it is CRAZY on the right. <sarcasm> I've met a lot of stupid conservatives and, wouldn't you know it, a lot of stupid liberals too. If something happens to Obama it will be a product of racism...not political ideaology. And, wouldn't you know it, there are racist liberals too.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Hummm... ok ok ok I'll admit, I've heard this sort of thing myself. You have something there X. Revolution is becoming a common term for the first time since the Viet Nam era. That is some scary s___ actually.
Originally Posted By Mr X Sorry Wahoo, but I can't really buy into your logic. As I mentioned, it's the degree of insanity I'm talking about, not the volume (in fact, I'm not at all surprised that you found millions more folks who hated Bush (he gave us all plenty of good reason)..the real question is how many of them wanted to literally kill him?).
Originally Posted By DVC_dad And yet... I dunno. I've also heard that people are buying guns yes, but really buying ammunition like crazy, but not for the reasons you think. It's because they think that it's a matter of time until the Obama admin gets a hold of the 2nd amendment. I know for a fact that none of my VAST NUMBERS of redneck relatives (come on, born and raised in rural Georgia here) would ever engage in taking up arms in that fashion you mention. But I do know a few that are worried about their rights to own guns. I am talking hunters and fishermen, guys like me who have grown up outdoors, "in the woods." These aren't people who go postal. They are Right wingers yes, but NOT Right wing nutjob extremists. Yes the word Revolution is scary, but I don't think the recent shortage of ammunition has anything to do with that at all. In fact most of my redneck country cuss relatives are either in the military or have served in the military. Of those, many of them have been in war. Whatever the case, the word revolution is over used no doubt. But I don't honestly see anyone organizing anything in that fashion.
