Originally Posted By SFH Miss you, Bruce. Thanks for pulling this off 19 years ago tonight: <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID500020.asp" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/N...0020.asp</a>
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan This is an example of Disney/Disneyland/Imagineering during the Golden Years, when creativity and it's supporters was at it's peak. Just reading that article brought back memories of when everything seemed to be going right. What Happened???
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Here's a lesson for you, kids. If you a passionate about your job and commit to preserve your company's history and legacy, you'll be fired for it, just like Bruce Gordon!
Originally Posted By SFH Well, I will note that Bruce went on to work directly for the Disney family and was still working on books and such. Yes, some employers talk about "we are family" and such, but never, ever confuse a company with your family. Companies accomplish wonderful, amazing, and life-affirming things, but they do so by making money. If you are an employee, you are being compensated for your services, not for how much you care. Even CEOs get the boot every day (though many are very well compensated even as they are fired). From what I understand, when Bruce "left" WDI, things were not as good as they are now. Companies often go in cycles. Bruce had an encyclopedic knowledge of Disney, theme parks, and more; he really wanted to provide guests with an amazing experience that they couldn't find anywhere else; and I will forever be thankful for the things he did for this fan. But the harsh reality is, companies with a strong fan base are often owned by institutional investors who are relying on that company to produce profits and rise in value as a way of providing for their (the investors') livelihood. Some fans end up working for that company... but only because they can provide a service that company can use to turn a profit. The rest of the people working in those companies are there solely to support themselves and their families. They don't really care all that much about the history of the company, or what it will be like when they are divested of it. Many of these people, frankly, are turned off by really enthusiastic fans, either because you seem strange to them or you are more trouble than your dollars are worth. And when a company downsizes staff, an employee's being a fan himself is not going to save him, and seniority can actually be a bad thing. Kids straight out of college are cheaper... or better yet, interns who work like dogs for free and can be replaced by a new batch of interns next semester. Bruce probably enjoyed getting to work directly for the Disney family. Sometimes, what seems like a bad thing can actually turn out to be a good thing. SFH
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Oh I agree completely. Companies do not want people working for them that are passionate about the product or service they provide. They are a liability. They will speak up when the product quality diminishes and are simply obstacles when you want to do something like pave over a classic ride.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Let met add, Disney likes to put out this idea that their employees are passionate about the park. For example they never hesitate to talk about John Lasseter being a former ride op. Tings like that. That whole Imagineering book speaks volumes of passion. It's really hypocritical then, when a guy like Bruce Gordon is fired. Gordon actually cared about the legacy of the park. Lasseter just wants to increase his stanglehold that Pixar has on the resort. If you don't tow that line, you're out.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I still wonder why Bruce was not brought back last summer when Tony regained creative control of DL and Bob Weis returned to head up the DCA rehab. The execs who forced Bruce to quit are no longer in charge of WDI. New projects were beginning that would benefit from Bruce's experience. Yet Bruce got no offer to return like Bob Weis and other Imagineers got who were "fired" by the previous management. I think someone had it in for Bruce and didn't want him back at Disney. Someone who allowed him to be fired in the first place.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<SFH: And when a company downsizes staff, an employee's being a fan himself is not going to save him, and seniority can actually be a bad thing. Kids straight out of college are cheaper... or better yet, interns who work like dogs for free and can be replaced by a new batch of interns next semester.>> From what I understand, Gordon’s release wasn’t due to downsizing, but rather due to political reasons. The environment at Imagineering at the time was split between management and their “anointed creative team†and those with the creative and quality passion that had produces some of Disney’s beat parks and attractions. Gordon was one of the latter. You are right about the interns though. They were grabbed up by the “anointed creative team†and given the plumb projects, leaving the “quality/passion†Imagineers with little of significance to work on. Anyway, Gordon’s “release†was the result of company political actions, to the extreme loss for WDI and Disney fans.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<skinnerbox: I still wonder why Bruce was not brought back last summer when Tony regained creative control of DL and Bob Weis returned to head up the DCA rehab. The execs who forced Bruce to quit are no longer in charge of WDI. New projects were beginning that would benefit from Bruce's experience. Yet Bruce got no offer to return like Bob Weis and other Imagineers got who were "fired" by the previous management. I think someone had it in for Bruce and didn't want him back at Disney. Someone who allowed him to be fired in the first place.>> Gordon was reportedly so taken aback at his firing the he immediately walked out, leaving everything in his office. I really doubt that he would have had ANY INCLINATION of returning to Imagineering after being treated so badly, especially since his new job with the Disney Family Museum was providing him with such satisfaction. BTW, while the executives that ran Gordon out are no longer in charge, they reportedly still remain and little has really changed in the creative hierarchy.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox "BTW, while the executives that ran Gordon out are no longer in charge, they reportedly still remain and little has really changed in the creative hierarchy." Probably because those executives' bosses still remain. Glendale was reorganized, but Burbank was not. Changing WDI leadership was like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox "Gordon was reportedly so taken aback at his firing the he immediately walked out, leaving everything in his office." I would have done exactly the same. The firing was specifically targeted at him and Bruce knew it. No one was around to protest to Marty, not even Tony. Baxter was in Anaheim at the time, preparing for a private after hours birthday party at DL for Pete Docter. How convenient that Tony was not around when Bruce got the boot instead of being there to support his long-time friend and co-worker. Two years later when Tony regained control of DL, Bruce was not asked to return to WDI like Bob Weis was. Something seems wrong about that as well. "I really doubt that he would have had ANY INCLINATION of returning to Imagineering after being treated so badly, especially since his new job with the Disney Family Museum was providing him with such satisfaction." How do you know? Did you ask him? Did ANYBODY ask Bruce if he wanted to go back to Imagineering since the executives who fired him were demoted and replaced? Writing books and working on the Disney Museum with Jeff Kurtti was most likely quite satisfying to Bruce as you claim. But I do not see how that could possibly hold a candle to being an IMAGINEER, when Bruce had been an Imagineer for over 25 years. Both Bruce and David Mumford lived and breathed Disney their entire lives. Being Imagineers was everything to them. I cannot imagine Bruce not wanting to return to Glendale once Vaughn and Russell took control. If the offer was not extended to him, then someone near the top made certain that it never would be. Guess which someone my money is on.
Originally Posted By SFH >>Two years later when Tony regained control of DL, Bruce was not asked to return to WDI like Bob Weis was. Something seems wrong about that as well.<< We've gotten into personal territory here now about the private dynamics between individuals. Not sure I'm comfortable with this. What I will say is that Bruce was pretty darn close to being family to Tony. I won't go in to how I've seen this demonstrated. I find it extremely hard to believe, as you are insinuating, that Tony wouldn't have wanted Bruce back at WDI. Let's be careful when talking about stuff like this, especially when we're talking about someone who died suddenly and isn't around to set the record straight. SFH
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I understand your position but the facts speak for themselves. This matter has been discussed with some former Imagineers who all believed that Tony could have and should have tried to stop Bruce from being fired but chose not to because of self-preservation. I do not necessarily agree with that decision but I can understand why someone with decades of service to one company would make it. What troubles me is how Bruce was not invited back once Tony regained creative control of DL. I find it improbable that Baxter would have no authority to rehire his former Imagineers to work on DL projects. Seems to me if he wanted Bruce to return he could have pushed the issue with Lasseter to make it happen. But it is my understanding that he did not. You are correct that Bruce is no longer around to set the record straight. But other players in this drama are still with us. Maybe one of them can come forward and explain why Bruce did not return to WDI after Tony reclaimed DL. I know they read these boards. We will see if they have the courage of their convictions to speak out.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "BTW, while the executives that ran Gordon out are no longer in charge, they reportedly still remain and little has really changed in the creative hierarchy." <<Probably because those executives' bosses still remain. Glendale was reorganized, but Burbank was not. Changing WDI leadership was like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.>> Kind of. Sort of. Well ... yeah. Sure seems that way. Thing is though, it all starts with Jay Rasulo. Until he leaves, until someone with vision starts running the Disney parks and resorts, it's going to largely be status quo. Somethings will improve like DCA and HKDL, while others ... well, they won't. Bob is in Orlando this week, but you can bet he's getting the polished, PR tour, including a nervous Inoverherheadmeg following back at a safe distance. FWIW, I've just heard some disheartening news on the WDW front. First, I heard Space Mountain 2.0 had its budget slashed yet again. Now, tonight I was told the redo was dead. This is still rumor until I hear otherwise, but I definitely believe the budget slashing. I've also heard the Monsters Inc ride for the Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios had gone from a unique, doors type attraction to simply a copy of DCA's right now to the SuperStar Limo type ride vehicles. These kind of things happen for many reasons, including certainly the fact our economy is a disaster. But mostly they happen because Rasulo has no regard for the parks, his cast or visitors. But Bob only looks at the bottom line and Jay delivers, albeit by WalMarting the parks. And that's why in the end it doesn't matter sadly whether you have talent like a Bruce Gordon or not because what good is having a sports car that never leaves the garage? Disney has plenty of talent at WDI ... and plenty more ex-Imagineers who would come back at the drop of a hat IF the environment improved. But WDI is run as a business, not a dream factory, and it isn't run well by that criteria either. Add the toxic politics and agendas and it's not a place you'd want to work if you're very creative and want to see your projects in the real world and not as renderings in coffee table books or Jim Hill columns. Oops, did I say all that?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<What troubles me is how Bruce was not invited back once Tony regained creative control of DL. I find it improbable that Baxter would have no authority to rehire his former Imagineers to work on DL projects. Seems to me if he wanted Bruce to return he could have pushed the issue with Lasseter to make it happen. But it is my understanding that he did not.>> Tony is mostly interested with preserving his own position, much in the same way Marty sold his soul to remain and now be trotted out as an Imagineering Ambassador (does that give him diplomatic immunity in Toontown, btw?) There's no way of knowing what terms Tony and Bruce were on before his tragic passing. I had heard the two were spotted together just weeks before Bruce died. So apparently, Bruce held no grudge. But anyone who knows Tony realizes the man will do whatever it takes to hold onto his job and continue to play celeb-Imagineer to the fanboys. <<You are correct that Bruce is no longer around to set the record straight. But other players in this drama are still with us. Maybe one of them can come forward and explain why Bruce did not return to WDI after Tony reclaimed DL. I know they read these boards. We will see if they have the courage of their convictions to speak out.>> My money is on them staying silent, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox "But Bob only looks at the bottom line and Jay delivers, albeit by WalMarting the parks." Iger cannot get his annual $25 million bonus without ALL business units showing profit, including parks and resorts. I wanted to believe that Bob was different than Eisner when it came to the parks. But Jay is still running the show. Only the org chart has changed in Glendale, not the business practices. Silly me.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox "FWIW, I've just heard some disheartening news on the WDW front. First, I heard Space Mountain 2.0 had its budget slashed yet again. Now, tonight I was told the redo was dead. This is still rumor until I hear otherwise, but I definitely believe the budget slashing. I've also heard the Monsters Inc ride for the Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios had gone from a unique, doors type attraction to simply a copy of DCA's right now to the SuperStar Limo type ride vehicles." I should be shocked by this. Sadly, I am not. If Iger wants his annual $25 million bonus at the expense of the parks, Jay can do it with someone else's wallet. Disney parks are too expensive for cheap crap like this. I hope the recession hits so hard that regulars stop attending and never come back until Burbank comes to its senses.
