Originally Posted By Donny OK Disney Nerds ,this for you Part1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkT2iLetCTc Part2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxC_a7qnGi8 Part3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBNfauF6IHc&list=PL7C4787CFA11786A8&index=2
Originally Posted By Disneymom443 Thank you for that I wonder what it would have been if they did just what Walt wanted. One the other hand Walt did change things all the time.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip If Walt had gotten what he wanted for Epcot it probably would have lost massive amounts of money and bankrupted the Walt Disney Company. The "planned community" concept has been tried many times (on a smaller scale) throughout the United States (including at Celebration) and it has always failed.
Originally Posted By fkurucz One problem with creating the "community of tomorrow" is that it will eventually become the "community of yesterday" and no longer be a showcase for Disney. Not to mention that it could have become a money pit. Making EPCOT a theme park was probably the correct choice.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub So I guess it is doomsville for that new planned community called GOLDEN OAKS at DisneyWorld. I wish Doobie or Rebekkah would let us know more about living in Celebration since that was home for awhile(?). I have only been there once in 2001 for the holidays. Loked like a really cool town. Maybe it was too large of a concept. It does seem every city I visit now has many planned communities. In my future I want to live in the domed community similar to the attraction Living with the Land at Epcot.It is brilliant. I also ventured into the home of the future tour at EPCOT and really was impressed. Of course the futuristic home on the final stage at the Carousel of Progress is better than most of our homes even tho we complain about it constantly on LP. Everytime the PeopleMover wizzes past the City of the Future at WDW I want to live in that city. Anyway thanks Donny for the link...I will check it out now.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Just to let you know Part 1 is 5 minutes Parts 2 & 3 are almost 10 minutes long each.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Golden Oak doesn't really match my definition of a planned community. It is a high-end residential development with a very desirable (depending on your point of view) location. I was speaking of communities that are meant to be rather self-contained communities with not only residential properties, but also having retail, public services and schools all in a fairly walkable footprint. I'm not a local so all I know is what I read. But what I've read indicates that while property values in Celebration have held quite well considering the beating most Florida properties took and has become a popular tourist attraction, the "planned community" aspects of it have been less successful. If that is not the case, I would certainly appreciate know up-to-date information and details.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I realize it has had negative publicity in recent years. Just think there is always hope. I recently visited family in Ventura, California and a brand new community complex has just been built and then I return home to Kansas and see the announcement by same planners for construction here with same details. I know they have completed these projects in Fort Worth and Southlake , Texas and San Antonio. I just googled planned communities and they are still the future...if you can afford it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip We are still talking about different definitions. South Lake is another high-end community... in fact one of the wealthiest in the United States. And yes, it was a "master planned" community which means that plans were carefully made by the city council and zoning officials to control lot sizes, land uses, and future development. But that is still a whole different animal than what I am talking about. Southlake has been around a LONG time (incorporated in 1956) and has seen many different residential and commercial developers during that time. I am talking more about situations like Celebration where basically all development is planned and controlled by a single entity... in this case the Walt Disney Corporation.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Sorry I thought Disney sold all interest. I did not know disney still had controlling monetary power.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub So what do you want in your future? Does Disney have any influence for the future as envisioned by Walt Disney? Do they care about restoring that legacy? Should we as citizens of Disneyland start to question besides just complaining on a website or blog? By the way where is everybody?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Sorry I thought Disney sold all interest. I did not know disney still had controlling monetary power.<<< You're not wrong. Disney did sell all interest, because as mentioned, such a utopia does not exist. People, unlike Stepford Wives, are all completely different. And that doesn't work well with a planned community. Since we live in a free country, people expect their input to be taken seriously. In the case of Disney running the whole show, they wanted to have it be the model community that they had envisioned, via Walt's ideas. The would have had to maintain an iron grip on the community to do it that way, and, of course, the grand experiment failed, as I'm pretty sure Walt's would have. In a way, I'm glad that it didn't ever develop...EPCOT, I'm talking about, because I do think it would have bankrupt the "Disney Co."
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub So 2 that vote Yes it would have bankrupted and one that is not sure and still wants to believe. Anybody else want to vote and offer their opinion. It is interesting to wonder.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have known several people who have lived in Celebration. A couple of have loved it, others have hated it. Disney had a lot of problems in the beginning trying to execute their vision while dealing with what became a rather vocal group of unhappy residents. There a couple of great books about living in Celebration at the beginning. What was weird for me is two of them talk about friends of mine who also were living there. EPCOT as Walt Disney saw it would have been an interesting thing to see get built. I agree however that ultimately the idea was destined for major issues including financial. It was definitely a concept of a certain time and place. Hindsight is always 20/20 but we now know that Walt's vision would have dated quickly, American enterprise would lose interest in corporate sponsorships and such and people are pretty open until you mess with their lives. We also know that the idea of an ever-changing town would be impossible considering how hard it has been to keep both Tomorrowland and EPCOT Center current. Lastly, Disney mgmt over the past several years has no interest spending money to do what needs to be done to keep thing up to date, clean and current. All of which would have made EPCOT a disaster
Originally Posted By ExpDave I'm not sure that all planned communities are failures although it's been a long time, I lived in Columbia MD for a while and that was very nice. Although I take the point communities need to develop more organically. Although there did used to be company towns and that's what EPCOT would have been, NOT the solution to urban ills as Walt dreamed. I would not call Celebration self contained there is no industrial area, not even a gas station or super market inside Celebration. Still I would have like to have seen more of Walt's ideas in the EPCOT than what was built. The World Showcase is pretty good as is, needs more countries and attractions. But with Future World they have the same problem that they have with Tomorrowland. I would have preferred it to be more like the Industrial Park Walt planned, a showcase of corporate innovation at work. The Land pavilion comes the closest to this with it's working green houses. I think Test Track is closer to it now, but imagine Test Track with the addition of an actual car production assembly line where you can see cars being made. That would be cool. One note on World Showcase, I kinda wish they had developed that after they had developed the concept of hotels overlooking the park. Imagine how much bigger it would seem if all or most of the countries had themed hotels attached to their pavilions that overlooked the park!
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I consider Las Vegas' City Center and UAE's Jumeirah Palm islands manifestations of Walt's dream. I think the concept is indeed viable. It just wouldn't have worked for Disney. The original EPCOT would have "gone Mexican" by now. <Duck & cover>
Originally Posted By leemac <<I consider Las Vegas' City Center and UAE's Jumeirah Palm islands manifestations of Walt's dream.>> In what way? My all accounts City Center is a bust - it almost brought down the whole of MGM Mirage. The complex is an ugly mismatch of glass buildings with limited masterplanning. One building - Harmon Tower - is going to be razed to the ground due to poor construction. City Center isn't a planned community - there is little on-site for residents - not even a supermarket. If you want to spend all of your time in a Fendi store then it is for you. The Palm Jumeirah is an even bigger disaster. Condos/villas unsold, poor transportation links and it is sinking into the gulf. It is a perfect example of poor masterplanning. Thankfully the other two Palms have been put on permanent hold - even though a lot of land reclamation has already happened.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Golden Oak doesn't really match my definition of a planned community.>> Golden Oak has a full build-out of 450 homes - and it is debatable as to whether it will ever get to that size. Golden Oak has very limited facilities of its own and therefore isn't a planned community.
Originally Posted By leemac <<In a way, I'm glad that it didn't ever develop...EPCOT, I'm talking about, because I do think it would have bankrupt the "Disney Co.">> Considering the Company sunk more money into EPCOT Center than the Company was actually valued at by Wall Street then that is a plausible possibility. The issue is that TWDC of the '70s and early '80s knew nothing about masterplanning and building offices and residential properties. It probably would have had to partner with other firms like Tishman (that owns the Swan and Dolphin and Hilton at the Village etc.). People complain today that WDW Co. isn't a theme park operator but just a hotelier - I wonder what WDW Co. would be today if the original vision for EPCOT had been built.
Originally Posted By dagobert Isn't Val D'Europe near DLRP also some kind of a planned community by Disney?
