Originally Posted By ChiMike On WDWMagic posters are reporting that not only have their been significant cuts to the Halloween fireworks (both in running time and shells), but Wishes and Illuminations are running using less shells. Anyone on here verify this? I find it unpleasant that with the parks remaining fairly crowded, with more ticket price increases, with upcharge admission for special holiday parties, WDW still has the gumption to further go cheap on offerings. I wonder if WDW believes that their customer base is so unsophisticated as to not notice? Are WDW guests rubes? I hope WDW does not think that way of their guests. More importantly, I hope this isn't true. Especially for the upcharge parties (I've never been), and especially with F! being cut down.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hmmmm, ChiMike, I am so tempted to chime in here, but I am tired of being flamed by the rubes. All I can say is it does not surprise me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I'll be there soon and see what I can I find out, but it's true about the cutbacks to Hallowishes. Someone should write a nasty note to Phil letting him know that guests shouldn't be constantly paying more and getting less ... that isn't EXCEEDING GUEST EXPECTATIONS ... that's Wall Street of the 21st century and I think most folks are pretty tired of WalMarting to meet projections. Maybe driving a hybrid instead of an Escalade might save the company some $$$?
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey You don't think it's rude to call people rubes, a term that is synonymous with idiocy and inexperience?
Originally Posted By -em >>but it's true about the cutbacks to Hallowishes.<< So my thoughts were right- I saw part of the show on Tues and it seemed different but I couldn't put my finger on it but it makes sense...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>You don't think it's rude to call people rubes, a term that is synonymous with idiocy and inexperience?<<< Call them as I see them. So nope, I can understand some may not like it, but I do think they are at least inexperienced if they defend the direction of travel at WDW over the last 8 years at least.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Disney does bank on the hope that guests don't notice when things are removed or cut back. Any company would. So it's safe to say that they do cut and remove stuff that they think will go unnoticed by their guests or stuff that they think will not upset their guests. The thing is these little things add up and all of a sudden there is an intangible hint of something amiss that the guests pick up on. So, one should come away with an indication of how and what Disney feels they can get away with in reductions before the guests start having issues. That threshold is probably a reflection on how 'sharp', 'critical', or 'astute' their guests are. History has shown that DL can get away with less before their is vocal complaint than WDW can. Those dynamics have been discussed at length. Personally, I want to visit a place where standards are higher, whether by Disney's efforts or those of the stakeholders. Right now that place is The Disneyland Resort.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Call them as I see them. So nope, I can understand some may not like it, but I do think they are at least inexperienced if they defend the direction of travel at WDW over the last 8 years at least.>> Agreed. When did ignorance become something to be proud of and celebrated? When a candidate for VP can't name a single newspaper she reads or a case before the Supreme Court? In 2001? Earlier? There are things I am ignorant about and I try and learn about them and grow intellectually. I heard so much ignorance about China and its people before I spent a summer living and working with them. I am in a much better position to offer a reasoned answer when someone asks me about many facets of the country, doing business there, the culture ... and even HKDL! So where were we? Oh yeah ... WDW. If folks are ignorant about WDW's diminished standards or, worse, defend them, I'd say the term 'rubes' is certainly the correct one. The truth isn't always nice.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>History has shown that DL can get away with less before their is vocal complaint than WDW can. Those dynamics have been discussed at length. Personally, I want to visit a place where standards are higher, whether by Disney's efforts or those of the stakeholders. Right now that place is The Disneyland Resort.<<< ChiMike, I have always liked and respected your views, but never more than now!!! Removes mouse ears as a sign of respect.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I second that, Dave. Disney can't get away with things in Anaheim (and I'd even say Paris in many ways) that it can in tourist mecca WDW. The standards drop and people keep getting less while paying more and they're not smart enough to notice, caring enough to have it affect them or vocal enough to complain ... I can guarantee you that right now Al, Erin, Meg and crew are all going over lists of ways to cut more value from a WDW visit. The problem is WDW quality has been cut to the bone in most areas in the past decade ... there simply aren't any places left that won't negatively impact guests magical WDW vacations.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Thanks guys. Right back at you. >>The problem is WDW quality has been cut to the bone in most areas in the past decade ... there simply aren't any places left that won't negatively impact guests magical WDW vacations.<< And that's the trick! They are running out of cuts. We all said this day would come, and I do believe they are fully capable of enacting many more severe cuts.. BUT .. With the crowd levels where they still are and the higher price points that Disney just set, I really do believe that they will reach a point where they can't cut more hours, more entertainment, more attraction capacity, food quality, etc. and not have it further depress attendance. Price increases with product/service cuts have gotten them this far. Have satisfied Eisner's poorly-educated decree of annual returns growth. It's easy to obtain those margins when all it takes is hacks and cuts at the tradition and customer service that was so far ahead of any competitor. There will come a point where they have to improve, rather then devolve, in order to make money. They will be running out of gas with more cuts at these prices and can't keep going back to the same bag of tricks. Dipping into the same corporate wishing well.
Originally Posted By -em >>I can guarantee you that right now Al, Erin, Meg and crew are all going over lists of ways to cut more value from a WDW visit.<< But there is always the way to disguise it- ie the fact that the cast holiday celebration discounts were reduced in length and scope but its all masked by the fact the card came peppermint scented this year... (and yes I'm still grateful we got something so I'm not totally complaining but it was an interesting insight I had..)
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<If folks are ignorant about WDW's diminished standards or, worse, defend them, I'd say the term 'rubes' is certainly the correct one.>> If you say something derogatory about someone, it's ok; if someone calls you something derogatory based on the way you pigeon-hole people in your posts because they have a different perspective than you, it's name-calling. I find that double-standard funny from someone (Spirit) who rants about how unfair it is that rules apply to some people and not to others. It must be wonderful to be such an expert on certain things that you can call people names because they know less than you do. I didn't realize that privilege came with the title.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad Well I guess I'm a rube because I'm too stupid to complain. While I do see things I personally would do differently (like keeping All For One), my family still finds plenty of things we love at disney. It only takes one trip to our local amusement park to see how low the bar can go. The disney experience is still light years ahead of the competition. While I applaud your efforts to keep disney honest and don't want to step on toes, I have to point out that for a large number of us WDW is our only option. My family can't swing the cash to fly to one of the other parks. Ignorace must be bliss because we still love WDW. We don't complain because it is still much better than the alternatives.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I have to point out that for a large number of us WDW is our only option. My family can't swing the cash to fly to one of the other parks. Ignorace must be bliss because we still love WDW. We don't complain because it is still much better than the alternatives.<< When I read things like this I don't know if I should feel bad or helpful. I try not to put my nose in peoples' personal affairs. This comment though is said many times by many WDW guests. I wonder if it is driven at all be some sort of fear of the unknown or fear of change. I have run the numbers forwards, backwards, left, right, for 15 years and I can't see how WDW is less expensive than DL. I just don't. Airfare: While not on the East Coast, Airfare per person was typically +$20-$30 more per person from Chicago to LAX than to Orlando. That's one less meal. Hotel: Paradise Pier Hotel or even Disneyland Hotel (both on property Disney hotels) at most non-holiday times can offer a room for roughly $175. Then at times you can get a 4th night free in addition to the rate. That $175 is cheaper than any Disney Deluxe hotel and with those two properties you can walk to both parks, walk to Downtown Disney and walk to the Monorail. No buses. If you think WDW is cheaper because you don't stay at a Deluxe, well, then you have the Harbor Blvd hotels which are closer to the two parks then the aforementioned Disney hotels. Find better rooms for less money than the WDW values at the Harbor hotels. Still a quick walk with no buses needed. Tickets: APs are half the cost at DL and give you far better dining, hotel, and merchandise discounts. No need to pay even more for a dining discount card or any of those shenanigans. I haven't checked out park hoppers for awhile because the APs are so cheap, but I remember something like a 5-day hopper for $111.00. Compare that to WDW. -- So I can see how DL might be AS much as WDW, but I have never figured out how it costs more. With slightly higher airfare from most cities, the lower hotel and park ticket costs should make up for it. Most importantly, you get a whole brand new experience that, imo, surpasses WDW. If one doesn't believe it does, well, at least it is a different, varied, experience. WDW makes things too easy and I feel some folks don't want to abandon that easy regiment. Some people don't want to worry about LAX or John Wayne. They want Magical Express. Some people don't want to see the real world next door to a Disney park. Some people are afraid of going overseas to a Tokyo Disney or Euro Disney. Okay. I understand that. That's a personal decision. But I lived my whole life as a WDW guy. In the last 15 years I have been doing both, and not once, once, did I see a larger price tag in going to DL. Especially if you combine two annual trips on one AP. This is flying from Chicago and staying on property at both resorts.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>This comment though is said many times by many WDW guests. I wonder if it is driven at all be some sort of fear of the unknown or fear of change. I have run the numbers forwards, backwards, left, right, for 15 years and I can't see how WDW is less expensive than DL.<<< If you own DVC and drive in, then WDW is cheaper. But if people need to fly and rent a car, then DL is about the same price or cheaper.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad ChiMike....the difference is the airfare. We drive down every year from North Carolina. For about $250.00 in gas we can take 4 round trip. By taking advantage of mousesaver codes we can do a whole trip , 8 nights and 8 days with park hopper and water parks, at a moderate for a family of 4 for under $2500.00. After reading you guys for a while here, I know that Disneyland is special and that i would love it too. Someday I will visit some of the other Disney parks. Till then I will just see them through others eyes. Part of me says I'm probably not ready anyway because what if I did like it better? Would it lessen my magic at WDW? I would hope not but I didn't visit WDW till I was 35 and I have been back every year since. I don't understand it myself but there was some sort of immediate connection which makes me look forward to my next trip from the moment I leave Disney property. I guess that's why I read LP everyday and save all year for the next trip. As an aside I wanted to let you guys know (ChiMike, Spirit,Dave, Dan, MPierce and others)that you guys are fun to read and I find your opinions to always be well thought out and you always accept opposing opinions well. Also to Bobbelee and Nikki, you are so upbeat and always make me laugh. You 2 are the reason I decided to start joining in the conversation. gotta go. read you later
