Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Paris itself is an amazing "theme park" and one I absolutely love. I can never get enough of this city! It has it all.>> You can say that again. It is an amazing city. Too bad our dollar is soon going to be worth a peso, so I won't be able to return for a while. As to DSP ... I kind of agree with Dave. The park was certainly built to be the worst park ever. It was thrown together. It was full of depressing, barren concrete walkways and brown soundstages. It had no personality (DCA was and is worlds better in this regard), but it packs a lot of quality (and UNIQUE quality) into it. Cinemagique, Animagique, Armegeddon are all wonderful ... RnRC is better than Orlando. Haven't been there since Crush's coaster opened, but the reviews are universally solid to very good. I haven't seen the stunt show mainly because I don't enjoy in Florida. The pics of ToT really make it seem like they have done a great job of placemaking with this one ... it has gardens, it has a setup ... it wasn't just dropped like DCA's (which I just dropped down a few hours ago). The entertainment is wonderful ... just having a band playing mostly (but not entirely) Disney music on stage as a warmup to Cinemagique is something you would never get in Florida. So while the park will always suffer from the decisions made by Rasulo and Eisner, it still seems to be heading down the path to being a very decent park.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But the thrust of my arguement is that WDW is treated as the flagship resort, and the MK as the jewel in the crown when I feel like the MK offers the least value of the MK parks (except maybe HKDL) and that annoys we greatly. for many, the MK is seen as the main event. But it is like me going into a restaurant and ordering Filet Mignon and being served a hamburger. While I like Hamburgers, it is not filet.>> This is my argument in a nutshell. The MK drives down your throat the idea you're experiencing true 'Disney magic' there ... but the other MK-style parks just create it. Somehow as WDW became a mega-resort, the MK lost so much of what made it magical. And since it was my first Disney park ... and since I had so many happy childhood memories there (I was in my early 20s before I visited DL!) it just bothers me to hear 'fans' defend mediocrity ... oops, I think we just had a thread about that.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Last visit to WDW, I did not even go to MK or MGM. Both need alot of help. In contrast, my time at EC and especially DAK were really high quality experiences. >> Another Disney lover speaks the truth.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo mstaft, I totally understand where you are coming from. As much as I love DLP's Discoveryland, they really have butchered the place IMHO with SM Mission 2 and Buzz kicking Le Visionarium (yes, I know Buzz is much more popular, and it is fun, as well as being my son's fav - but I really wish they added it, there are enough expansion pods in Discoveryland). Also mstaft - please do not get m wrong, I LOVE the detail at DLP. Just ask anyone who has been on on of my tours - Lulu has been on the 1 day whirlwind tour and Smedley and ukfan deserve an award for enduring my multiday tour (I have been known to spend a whole day just on Main Street or in it's prime Discoveryland). I can often spend 6 hours in Frontierland, even with just 5 attractions on offer. But WDS delivers something Europe does not have - a Studio vibe. To many Europeans, a TV/Movie Studio (and even WDS had a working facility for the Disney Channel) is exotic. Most of the very cool studios here in Europe do not offer tours. It is a big deal. And in France, Cinema is a major industry. I can easily watch Cinemagique every day I am at the resort because it is so rich in detail, something Disney used to be reknowned for. >>>I do like Liberty Square and enjoy Tomorrowland, although it was much better before it was cartoonized. The rest of the park is ok. That said, I do prefer the MK versions of Splash and BTRR over DL's. (However, BTRR at DLP Rocks!) Last visit to WDW, I did not even go to MK or MGM. Both need alot of help. In contrast, my time at EC and especially DAK were really high quality experiences.<<< Again, I totally agree with all of those perspectives. I adore EC and DAK. They are really the only reason (other than Floridian friends) that I would choose to visit WDW rather than DLP or DL.
Originally Posted By mstaft I did miss the presence of Le Visionarium this trip, and I usually am not one for filmed attractions, 3D or otherwise. Space Moutain 1.0 was much better than 2.0 (Love the original muisc!)BUt the Nautilus was still there! Pirates ranks as one of my favorites in the park. My wife loved it as well and we rode 3 times last visit. Adventure Isle is a delight and Fantasyland the best one I've ever seen. That said, the Wow! Factor winner this trip was a tie between Le Chateau (which was "boxed up" last visit in 1998, to the dismay of all six of us) and the whole of Frontierland. Phantom Manor was being refurbed but even without it, we loved our experiences there. Just sitting on the porch by the shops closest to Phantom Manor and taking in the panorama, soaking in the vibe, and exploring its nooks and crannies was good for this soul. It made me wish we live close by so I could spend a whole day just in each individual land and get to really "know" it like I do DL. That, in fact, is probably a mixed blessing. Now when I travel and get to visit a Disney park, I get wowed all over again. The opposite end is that I have less time to really soak in all a park offers since I am so busy trying to catch my favorite attractions. But such is life! I am blessed to travel as much as I do.
Originally Posted By mstaft Spirit, Crush's Coaster IS apretty fun attraction even though they kinbd of dropped the ball on the theming once the action gets going. I found RnRC much better in Orlando. The preshow and the entrance into the alley to get your limo is a much better beginning, IMHO. There in WDSP, it seemed like a rush job with the fog and lights to distract you from the lack of substance. Even the cardboard looking cutouts dvertising the attractions cheapened the feel of this par. We did enjoy Armageddon. (That last statement reads very funny to me as a Christian!!!!) BTW- what did happen to MK after the New Tomorrowland? I mean from inside the company. Thought Alien Encounter was really well done as funny as all get out. It just wasn't the cartooning of TL or the loss of 20k Leagues that effected the park, the rest seemed different on subsequent visits as well. Something intangible.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<and the MK as the jewel in the crown when I feel like the MK offers the least value of the MK parks >> We bought a book (I forget the title) that commemorates DL's 50th Anniversary. In that book Eisner states that the DL is the "flagship" park.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<You can say that again. It is an amazing city. Too bad our dollar is soon going to be worth a peso, so I won't be able to return for a while.>> The Mexican peso is pretty much pegged to the dollar, so they are sinking with us. I wonder how long until 1 Euro = 2 dollars?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo fkurucz, I agree DL is the flagship park. But if you ask the international marketeers and all the disney fans across the globe, I think sadly most would consider the MK as the flagship. I really wish Disney would treat DL as the flagship parkit truly is. In Europe, so many people do not even know DL exists.
Originally Posted By mstaft ^^^ Wow- I did not know that. Our friends in Wales went to DL after a visit to both WDW and DLP. Not being Disney fanatics, their response was interesting; "Everything is just SO small!" But they did have a great time.
Originally Posted By gmaletic >I really wish Disney would treat DL as the flagship parkit truly is. What do you mean? What does it mean to be treated as "the flagship park?"
Originally Posted By gmaletic >Our friends in Wales went to DL after a visit to both WDW and DLP. Not being Disney fanatics, their response was interesting; "Everything is just SO small!" If we're being honest, we have to admit that by and large, most people can't tell the difference between the Disney "Magic Kingdom" theme parks. Differences by the majority are seen in the macro sense--this castle is bigger than that one, do they have all the rides the other park does--but beyond that, most people don't discern the minutiae that the people on these boards do.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo To actually market DL outside of the west coast. Like I say, I find it very sad that people in Europe think WDW is the original, and the DLP is a poor immitation of "the real thing - you know, the original in Florida". The Disney geek in me gets really upset when I hear this mentality. And things like WDW getting the lion's share of attractions in the name of DL's 50th birthday, or 100 years of Disney celebrations does not help. I really think DL should be the centre of these sorts of celebrations.
Originally Posted By gmaletic >To actually market DL outside of the west coast. First, I think we have to assess how these parks are marketed: first and foremost as "places" and not collections of attractions. (It's rare to see a Disney TV ad that is about an attraction, vs. about the Disney experience as a whole.) Given that mindset, it's hard for me to see how you can effectively market a park that's not the closest to the consumer. "If you want the ultimate Disney experience, please come to Anaheim." How, then, does Orlando market itself? As the 2nd best Disney experience?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I am not saying the marketing should be at the expense of another. It is just that I would like to see more marketing of all the parks in Europe. If it were about proximity, then why did we see more WDW ads than DLP ads in the UK up until the 15th?
Originally Posted By gmaletic Just as a follow-up to that: if Disney won't even admit that DCA is the 2nd best park at Disneyland (something even the most ardent DCA fan would say without hesitation), it's hard to see how they could market the idea that one of their destinations is 2nd best...the natural result of promoting one of their destinations as "best."
Originally Posted By gmaletic >If it were about proximity, then why did we see more WDW ads than DLP ads in the UK up until the 15th? Weather likely plays an important part in that: people like Florida for that reason. Also, it's possible that many UK travelers are set on traveling to the U.S. The weak dollar makes it especially attractive. (In fact, the difference in price--thanks to currency conversion costs--between staying at Paris vs. Orlando might very well pay for the flight over.)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It does indeed right now, but it hasn't always been this way. A few years ago it did cost less to go to DLP. And if people are going to go to Florida, why not California? After all, it is only an hour longer flight, the weather and sites are nicer in So Cal, and the flights only cost about $60 more. Therefore, there is no real rhyme or reason other than they are touting the behemoth WDW as the epitome experience. In fact, I think this has been a small part of DLP's financial difficulties.
