Originally Posted By gmaletic >And if people are going to go to Florida, why not California? Because if they go to WDW, they'll stay a week with Disney. If they go to California, they'll spend two days, and the rest of the time exploring L.A. Perhaps this is your point--maybe California should be the place that has so much stuff to do that you have to spend a week to do it all--but that isn't how the situation stands currently. I don't know whether your definition of "flagship park" relies at all on volume of things to do or not.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Nope - flagship to me is always about quality and innovation - 2 things that seem to have been lacking from the MK for a very long time in my experience.
Originally Posted By gmaletic >Nope - flagship to me is always about quality and innovation I don't disagree...but as long as WDW is the place where people have the opportunity to spend the most money, it will be the most heavily promoted.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I know, and the businessman in me knows that makes sense. But the Disneyfanboy in me - the situation ticks me off. People really look at me when I am speaking greek when I mention TDL and HKDL. Cruiseliners advertise all their ships and routes to the market, I wish Disney behaved the same way. It seems more and more like Disney woud rather compete with Six Flags and Cedar Point in many ways rather than Princess, Cunard and P&O.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror I agree with Greg about the marketing of the parks. They know who/where their core visitors are located, and they have to market accordingly. To NOT do so would be an abdication of reason. But I agree that innovative attractions should originate as often as possible in the flagship park. That makes sense to me, not only as a heritage sort of thing, but also from practicality. When WDI is testing out a new attraction with the masses, they have the opportunity to do so just an hour's drive from their headquarters. The advantages of that to me seem pretty obvious.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror And Dave, thanks for your perspective on the studios. Very interesting thoughts.
Originally Posted By mstaft Greg, I think you are right that most nonDisneyphiles don't seem to know the difference between one MK park and another. A different case in point from an American in Paris- My nephew grew up in OC, Ca. He talked to me and said after 2 months in Europe, he was dying to do something very "Californian" by the time he hit Paris. I told him about DLP. He ent and enjoyed himself. But his take, "It's Disneyland, it's just Disneyland in France." I was shocked as I think DLP excels at being the most gorgeous, over the top in detail MK! To him, just another Disneyland. To me, flagship means respect, care, and investment as well as promotion. Maybe the 50th- and the profitability that came with it- will bring newfound respect to DL. The supposed 1.2 billion investment for DCA seems to point to that.
Originally Posted By gmaletic >But I agree that innovative attractions should originate as often as possible in the flagship park. Innovative attractions originate because there's a market need for them. And they'll go in the park where they're needed. I wrote about this in my Meaning of Disneyland article, about how the parks are no longer guided by anyone's personal vision, but rather, by market needs. The Disney parks are still great places, but there's no doubt that they're different--and lesser--places than they were when they were a personal statement.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Greg - I often do agree with your persepct, especially with this latest one. So true. And it's a real shame. But I wonder if there is hope with different lead imagineers focusing on one resort each?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo persepct = perspective I think this laptop was cheap for a reason...
Originally Posted By gmaletic >But I wonder if there is hope with different lead imagineers focusing on one resort each? To be sure, my statement--"Innovative attractions originate because there's a market need for them"--is a bit stringent. Many of the people who work at the parks and WDI--and that goes from the lowest cast member up to the most senior management--love these places, and do the best they can to make them genuinely inspiring. Still, there's no doubt that Disney can't afford to do anything that 1) doesn't have what they believe to be a guaranteed market return, and 2) hasn't been touched by a thousand different groups within the company. The ability to do something "just because it's fun, interesting, or important" is no doubt crippled. It's one of the problems of being a public company. And part of me wishes that Disney weren't a public company, and didn't have so many businesses and investors competing for its attention. (This is the likely subject of an article after I finish the 2nd part of this one.)
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>>But I agree that innovative attractions should originate as often as possible in the flagship park. Innovative attractions originate because there's a market need for them. And they'll go in the park where they're needed.<<< Which is why I used the phrase "Should appear as often as possible" in my statement about the flagship park.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Greg - I often do agree with your persepct, especially with this latest one. So true. And it's a real shame. >> I do too. And I've been agreeing with all you've been saying in this thread too, Dave. I guess they don't just have better healthcare in the UK, but smarter Disney Geeks too ;-) <<But I wonder if there is hope with different lead imagineers focusing on one resort each?>> That all depends on the Imagineers. I tend to believe that DCA, DAK, DL, TDL, TDS and HKDL are all in great hands right now (likely in that order) followed by Disney-MGM, EPCOT, DLP and MK in that order (even though one Imagineer is ostensibly in charge of all four, which isn't smart to begin with, and due to the level of investment being made in said parks.) It isn't hard to tell what parks are good and getting better and which ones are struggling, and while you can't blame the lead WDI creative exec in charge fully, you certainly can point a couple of fingers in that direction.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Which is why I used the phrase "Should appear as often as possible" in my statement about the flagship park.>> In Disney circles, DL is and has always been considerd the flagship theme park because it started them ... it's still Walt's baby and 52 years later his fingerprints are still over it (because they won't pay to clean the windows ... that's a joke ... DL custodial puts WDW to shame.) But WDW is the flagship RESORT. There is a difference. Oh, and the Grand Floridian, which is finally losing the tacky, cheap, 1980s mall tile and gaining beautiful imported marble flooring soon, is considered the flagship hotel in the resort chain. I am considerd the flagship Spirit (and mid-level Disney exec stalker too!)
Originally Posted By BeautysBeast Beauty and myself will be in Paris for valentines and taking a 4 day trip to DLP.she has been once before but will be my first time.Cant wait to experience the magic.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Cheers Spirit - I simply write what I think. But if anyone would like to discuss this and many more topics, the Baloos will be on tour in California Feb/March 2008 BeautysBeast - when are you moving over here?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Cheers Spirit - I simply write what I think. But if anyone would like to discuss this and many more topics, the Baloos will be on tour in California Feb/March 2008>> I will be out there at some point during that timeframe (I literally just returned from a mostly 5-day business trip), so I'll send you an email when I can catch my breath and find out exactly when you'll be out there for a spirited good time!
Originally Posted By Dlmusic I have a major issue with the Haunted Mansion section of this article: First, <<One of the joys during my previous visit to Disney World was that the cast members consistently made sure that the doors were closed and everyone was settled into the entry foyer before the show began its "When hinges creak..." spiel, and the portrait above the fireplace began its transformation. To do it this way is to allow guests to see the complete show. If, instead--as is the typical fashion in Anaheim and Paris--you usher the crowds in directly to the stretching rooms, you've cost them not only 30 seconds of the ride, but some important, establishing atmosphere as well.>> That has not been my experience in California at all, in fact in the last two trips I have been on the Mansion nearly twenty times and have never walked directly into a stretch room. But the real problem I have is this (WARNING: Rant ahead): <<\Note to Haunted Mansion cast members: if you are not letting every single guest see the portrait change and hear the entire entry spiel, you are not doing your job.>> On the contrary THEY ARE doing their job. As a former CM of the Haunted Mansion I can tell you that it is impossible with the current staffing situation to operate the Haunted Mansion as you describe. In the past few years Disney has cut the position of Foyer and so the two Stretch Room positions must run out open the doors, load the guests, close the door to the Entrance Hallway, than open the door to let in the next group of guests. I can guarantee you that there is no way there is time enough to run over and let everyone in before the show begins. I really dislike it when people assume that just because something bad is happening that it must be the Cast Member's fault. As someone who still has friends working the Haunted Mansion, I found it very heavy handed to put into writing that someone is not doing their job without knowing all the facts. I hope that you can complain about the proper source and that is the park managers who have changed the staffing situation instead of the Cast Members of many who would love to run the attraction as you have described. There are a lot of great people who work there who care a lot about show and have little choice but to follow current procedures.
