Originally Posted By Mr X Wow. Guess she was just too much for those officers to handle. Break out the zap gun! <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0</a>,2933,342471,00.html
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo So Mr X - who do you think was right or wrong here? Shows how much this world is turning into hell in a handbasket.
Originally Posted By jonvn At first I saw this and couldn't believe it. Then I read the article. This girl deserved to be tasered. Little monster.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Donna Hudepohl, a school resource officer called to remove the troubled girl from the classroom, was allegedly pushed and punched in the face during a struggle to restrain her. Hudepohl responded by tasering the girl. << So how should they have handled the situation? Beaten her down? That would have gone over real well? They handled it the best they could.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Fraid I am with jonvn here. If it were my daughter (god forbid), I would have said she deserved it (my wife agreed).
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 She actually committed attempted murder if you want to be specific, by trying to push another kid into oncoming traffic....Then she committed assault. Nice try in trying to paint the police in a bad light Mr. X, better luck tomorrow.
Originally Posted By Mr X Um, I read the info as well BUT considering the fact that a stun gun should be a last resort in LIEU of shooting the person my question becomes... do you all think she should've been shot?
Originally Posted By Mr X William, I'm not trying to "paint" anything. She is ELEVEN. And a girl. Would you think deadly force would be appropriate? As far as the pushing into traffic thing, if true then she should be severely punished (perhaps as an adult, I dunno). But as far as trying to subdue a little girl? No, I don't buy it. They didn't have to beat her down, just sit on her would've worked okay (she wasn't THAT big). Another vigilante with a zap gun. I really don't buy it. And, by the way, why do school guards at some middle school even CARRY stun guns?
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 how should they have handled it? Rodney King'd her until she didnt put up a fight?
Originally Posted By Mr X See post 8. And again, if using a taser is akin to a last resort "this or a real gun" sort of thing, do YOU think they were justified in using deadly force? I'd really appreciate an answer to THAT question, if you really want to accuse me of trying to slam cops or whatever.
Originally Posted By Mr X I'm sorry if this is coming off incorrectly...I'm not saying the little girl wasn't out of control, or didn't need to be subdued or anything like that. MY issue with it is that these tasers are potentially deadly weapons, and it seems to be becoming more and more the "weapon of choice" for dealing with any situation where other methods have been used successfully for centuries. Look at the staff of mental hospitals over the centuries. They've had to subdue out of control people time and time again. They've done so successfully, somehow without stun guns. And I bet a lot of those patients were a lot more out of control, and bigger and stronger, than this pre-teen girl. Not to mention the fact that the facts are still very preliminary. If YOU were the cop who used the gun, wouldn't YOU want to exaggerate the strength and fear factor of this little girl to justify using a stun gun on her? Otherwise, it would look pretty bad.
Originally Posted By jonvn "do you all think she should've been shot?" Well, she might have been coming close. The thing is I don't know how big she is. Some 11 year olds are pretty strong and large at that point. She was able to throw a desk. That's not something a scrawny little girl can do. If she was a tiny little thing, then yeah, this is crazy, but the way she was acting, that she could push another kid into traffic, toss a desk, all that, that makes her sound like a bigger kid. I hope it taught her a lesson. I doubt it, though. She'll probably end up in prison for life, or as a tattoo covered prostitute selling her body for crack. It's great that by 11 her life is already ruined. Should have been aborted.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 And again, if using a taser is akin to a last resort "this or a real gun" sort of thing, do YOU think they were justified in using deadly force?<< She was out of control, in school, with the paranoia concerning molestation and improper touching, I don't blame the guy for using a taser, imagine if he tried to grab her and touched her breasts or somewhere else innapropriately...
Originally Posted By johnno52 An abstract about Tasers The electric shock weapons — which unleash 50,000 volts of electricity and are designed to incapacitate a person — have come under intense international scrutiny since Dziekanski, a Polish immigrant, died shortly after RCMP officers repeatedly shocked him with a Taser and pinned him down in the airport's arrivals area. Statistics from the human rights organization Amnesty International indicate there have been 19 Taser-related deaths in Canada since 2001. While "excited delirium" — a heart-pounding state of agitation — has been cited as one possible cause of death following a Taser shock, Amnesty International has repeatedly called for a moratorium on Taser use pending an independent, comprehensive study of the stun guns' effects.
Originally Posted By Mr X Good points, johnno. And that's exactly why I feel the "last resort" part of the taser equation is becoming more and more irrelevant. (maybe "ignored" is a better way to put it) **While "excited delirium" — a heart-pounding state of agitation — has been cited as one possible cause of death following a Taser shock** Do they call it "excited delirium" when people who are struck by lightning die?
Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, they are horrible, overused and cops just seem to love them way too much. Sometimes, though, they actually are the proper tool. Almost never, though.
Originally Posted By Mr X I believe they are the proper tool when someone is pointing a gun at the cops or at bystanders. Other than that though? I don't see it. Like I said, there are centuries of regular techniques for taking down and subduing a suspect. So, in a sense, I sort of take back my agreement with William (though I understand the point), because now should the cops taser ALL female suspects because they're afraid they might accidentally touch a nipple while wrestling any woman to the ground? And thus a taser is a better idea? No, it can't work that way.
Originally Posted By barboy "She was out of control, in school, with the paranoia concerning molestation and improper touching" Yep, because the assailant was a ***minor*** and ***female*** --- a deadly combination for extremely harmful allegations. The cop chose wisely. The little monster and family(I assume) would have made sure, via Gloria Alred of course, that lawsuits abound and worse a criminal indictment be issued.
Originally Posted By SuperDry One thing that is taught to police officers is the concept of "escalation of force" - you start out with the minimum force appropriate for the situation and then escalate from there as needed, with the goal being to bring the subject under control while minimizing risk of injury to both them and the officer. Here's one such list, prior to tasers being available: Verbal, manual, chemical agents, impact weapons, deadly force. Considering the nature of the taser and how it seems that quite a few people end up dying as a result, it would seem to me that tasers belong between impact weapon and deadly force. But based on the numerous stories of their use, and the many videos that have appeared in the media, it appears almost as if tasers are being used even prior to chemical agents in many cases. This doesn't seem right to me. It seems that in several of the cases I've seen, a facefull of Mace would have been more than enough to disorient the person and allow them to be handcuffed. Additionally, just in the small sample size of incidents where video and audio is available, in too many cases it seems that the officer involved is using the taser as a punitive tool (as in "do as I say or you'll get tased!") or even that they're getting their jollies by using the taser. The video of the Polish guy in the Vancouver airport comes to mind. Before the officers even arrive on the scene, they're already talking about using the taser, and one of them is acting like they're looking forward to it. There were at least three officers, and using a taser as the very first tool on someone that didn't have any weapons seems like the wrong thing to do. Or so it seems to me.
