Originally Posted By AutoPost This topic is for Discussion of: <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/w/news/2014/04/08/disney-responds-to-guests-with-disabilities-lawsuit/" target="_blank"><b>4/8/14: Disney Responds to Guests With Disabilities Lawsuit</b></a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Oh crap. When does EVERYONE stop looking for "entitlements". It is not a guaranteed right of every child to visit a Disney park. It your kid can't handle the situation (knowing that Disney tries to accommodate far more than most parks), stay the hell home. What's next... government vouchers for Disney Park visits because no child should be denied the experience based upon their parent's economic situation??
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I'm not familiar with the specifics of this lawsuit, but to a certain extent, experiencing the parks is a "right". Disney (or any other business open to the public) is required to make "reasonable accommodation" for those with disabilities. It is not reasonable to make Tarzan's Treehouse fully wheelchair accessible; it is reasonable to make the ground-level part wheelchair accessible and have some additional interactive elements there In this scenario, from my limited experience with children with autism (at a summer camp, which is an equally foreign environment from the norm) and using the DAS system (with someone in a wheelchair at DLR, so there may be differences), it seems to me that they're providing reasonable accommodation. The (admittedly small group of) children that I worked with were able to spend some quiet time waiting, or take a walk somewhere to kill time. If the people related to this lawsuit aren't able to sit and wait somewhere nearby, I wonder how they physically made it into the park, since there's a lot of sitting and waiting during transit to get there Additionally, one of the key complaints seemed to be that the guest must go to the attraction to pick up a return time. My understanding is that the guest must be present to ride, but another member of the group can go get the return time The big push behind this lawsuit, however, seems to be simply that Disney changed the rules. Change can be tough to deal with (especially for those with autism), but it creates more equal treatment for those with disabilities. Given that ADA's goal is to create an equal experience for people with disabilities (not a more favorable one), I think they have little ground to stand on But I'm not a lawyer nor do I have much specific knowledge about the challenges associated with autism, so I could be completely off base
Originally Posted By schnebs I'll throw my two cents in as a stepdad to two daughters with autism. Under the GAC, we used to be able to board attractions at the parks with little or no wait, which was a big help; the girls can very easily get overstimulated by the surroundings at the parks, and asking them to wait in a standard queue is practically inviting them to have a meltdown. With the DAS, we have to get a card from City Hall, then head out to one of the Guest Relations stands in the parks and get a time to return to the attraction we want to visit - basically, we skip the queue but still have to wait the time we would have been in the queue someplace else, give or take a few minutes. The folks filing the lawsuit are arguing that the DAS doesn't take account that some kids with ASDs can't handle waiting or going to an attraction and not being able to go on immediately, so that now they're not being reasonably accomodated, and that Disney is discriminating against them by taking away a system that was a reasonable accommodation. Honestly, I'm torn about the lawsuit and the change to the DAS. The requirements of the DAS can make it more difficult for us to take our girls to the parks - it's hard for them to wait anywhere to get on an attraction, not just in a queue, and all the while the sights and sounds of the parks are affecting them, so the end result with the DAS is that they experience less of the parks because they can't do as much before we have to get them out of there (which may happen after only a couple of hours). But what Disney's offering now with the DAS is in line with what other theme parks offer, and other kids who don't have ASDs have to wait, so I can see how you can argue that it's not a reasonable accommodation to give people with ASDs the equivalent of an unlimited Fastpass for all the attractions. Personally, I think a better solution would be for Disney to do something similar to what they do with the Make-A-Wish kids - provide advocacy organizations or regional centers with special passes that allow people with ASDs immediate entry to attractions if they need it, so that the option is available but people can't just go to Guest Relations and insist that Disney give them the passes, no questions asked. I can't see this lawsuit providing a workable solution for Disney or the parents of kids with ASDs.
Originally Posted By DVC dad lurking Was this all brought about by the physically challenged tour guides for hire thing? Is this a prep for the horizon of Autism being diagnosed in record numbers and seemingly on the steep rise? There has to be a better way. I have been waiting in long lines in he Florida heat for years with my 7 kids. We have never minded or even paid attention to those going through the exit or whatever to get in the front of the line. I am instead thankful that I have somehow thus far not had to deal with the extra efforts that a child with Autism brings. I would like to see things go something like this... A note from a physician provided and verified BEFORE the family ever arrives and then upon arrival, a "special fast pass" or front of line pass is given, and in some fashion that pass limits the number of rides per day or whatever. Problem solved.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Was this all brought about by the physically challenged tour guides for hire thing?<< Yes, that's what sparked it. What's particularly ironic about it is that legally Disney can't ask for 'proof' of a disability (which is why the doctor's note wouldn't work); they can only ask how they can help accommodate the guest. If the people who hired guides knew that, they would know that they could just as easily wander into guest relations with a made up disability and still get the pass That's why the new system has no real advantage over waiting in the queue, other than not physically waiting there. You still have to wait just as long, cutting down on the incentive to cheat the system (though you still could pick up one return time, and go visit an attraction with a short wait, essentially being in 2 places at once)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***some kids with ASDs can't handle waiting or going to an attraction and not being able to go on immediately*** I'm sorry, but that sounds like a disability Eric Cartman would come up with. Give me a break. I'm all for reasonable (even a bit beyond) accommodation too, but if THAT'S the argument, I'm with RoadTrip all the way.
Originally Posted By Mr X Just to soften up my comment a tad, if a kid is so badly affected by just passing by just LOOKING at an attraction they can't then experience immediately, maybe, just maybe, there are other vacation options preferable to DisneyWorld, a place which is overstimulation times a zillion everywhere you turn and it can't help but upset such a child to even be there.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< if a kid is so badly affected by just passing by just LOOKING at an attraction they can't then experience immediately, >>> Or perhaps, send someone else in the party ahead to get the pass, and don't mention the attraction to the affected kid until it's time to ride it. Yes, it's a little extra effort than was required by the old system, but as someone else pointed out, it removes almost all of the incentive for abuse. <<< I would like to see things go something like this... A note from a physician provided and verified BEFORE the family ever arrives >>> That's a great idea. Write your Congressman and ask him or her to sponsor a bill to amend the ADA to allow for that. Until that happens, Disney has to deal with the situation as it is today, which prohibits them from requiring proof of disability, making any judgement themselves as to the bona fides of a claimed disability, or even asking what the disability is. That's why the system is as it is - Disney must play within the rules of the ADA as it was written 20+ years ago and whose authors didn't foresee the level of selfishness (and in some cases self-righteousness) that some members of the public would have.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance "Just to soften up my comment a tad, if a kid is so badly affected by just passing by just LOOKING at an attraction they can't then experience immediately, maybe, just maybe, there are other vacation options preferable to DisneyWorld, a place which is overstimulation times a zillion everywhere you turn and it can't help but upset such a child to even be there." As much as I feel for families that have to deal with these challenges, I agree. There is a point where Disney just can't be expected to accomodate for every single person in this world.
Originally Posted By darcy-becker I have a friend with two autistic boys. The younger has never been to DL but the older doesn't like. Too many people for him. They leave the boys with Grandma and Grandpa and take their daughter by herself.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>There is a point where Disney just can't be expected to accomodate for every single person in this world.<< I agree, and that's where the "reasonable accommodation" clause comes in. Is it reasonable to build a walkway that can be traversed in a wheelchair? Yes. Is it reasonable to let somebody skip all of the lines because they can't wait? Eh, probably not. Obviously this is a very specific scenario within ADA, but I hope that the court's decision does lead to some clarification on the matter. As a result of every disability being different, there's no blanket rule that applies to everything; however, realistically Disney must find a way to approach the situation in a fair and consistent manner, which by default gives certain people more of an advantage than others
Originally Posted By sjhym333 And it is a balancing act for Disney. I think Disney has tried to be reasonably accommodating to its guests with disabilities and I know that they have consulted with ADA experts along the way. It is a shame that some people have abused the system. I am honestly torn here. I want folks who have disabilities to be able to explore the magic of the Disney parks. I have friends who have children with autism who are easily overstimulated and I have to wonder why anyone would want to put a child like that in a Disney environment. I remember seeing a young man in a wheelchair who could barely sit upright and his parent trying to get him situated on Soarin. It took a good 10 minutes of getting him out of his chair and onto a seat and then a CM telling them that he couldn't ride because he couldn't keep his own body upright. It was sad for many reasons. My hope is that cooler heads would prevail and parents would make wise decisions for their children.
