Originally Posted By AutoPost This topic is for Discussion of: <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/w/news/2013/07/22/wdi-shakes-up-leadership-at-walt-disney-world/" target="_blank"><b>7/22/13: WDI Shakes Up Leadership at Walt Disney World</b></a>
Originally Posted By dagobert Good to know that Joe Rohde is still in charge for DAK. He did a great job with that park.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Good to know that Joe Rohde is still in charge for DAK. He did a great job with that park.>> Meh. I've never understood the love Joe gets. He can theme things with the best of them, but his rides have always left something to be desired.
Originally Posted By dagobert Honestly I don't know that much about Rohde. I know that he was responsible for DAK and that is the most beautiful park at WDW. I also know that he was involved in Aulani and that hotel looks fantastic. He is also involved in DLP's Les Villages Natures and I like that concept as well. EE is not considered to be a great ride among Disney fans, but I liked the ride a lot when we have been to WDW. The only disappointment was the not working yeti. So in my opinion he did a good job, except for the yeti.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros What does this actually mean for the parks? "Officially" the only thing on the table at the moment is Avatar at DAK, so these folks don't really have much to work on in their respective parks. I'm also a little concerned that Epcot and the Studios are being grouped together, since they're the ones that need the most work. It seems to me like ether one would be a fulltime job, so I'm worried that we won't see much for a while, which is exactly what WDW doesn't need
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Meh. I've never understood the love Joe gets. He can theme things with the best of them, but his rides have always left something to be desired.>> I strongly disagree. You have to remember that the number one goal of Animal Kingdom is to present animals in a natural-looking setting, and they have done that exceedingly well. The Oasis, Discovery Island Trails, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Pangani Forest Trail and Maharajah Jungle Trek are all extremely well done. The show type attractions have aged extremely well. Festival of the Lion King and the Tough To Be a Bug 3-D movie play to nearly full houses fifteen years after they opened... a rarity for Disney show attractions (I realize that TTBAB does not do as well at DCA). I think Expedition Everest is an excellent Disney coaster. It is consistently downgraded for the non-working Yeti, but I kind of doubt Rohde had much to do with engineering the ride. Once he signed off on the overall concept and design he would have turned it over to others to make it actually work and be maintainable. The fact that so many complain about the Yeti not working says to me that the original inclusion of it was a very good idea. The queue for Expedition Everest is one of Disney's very best. The original "thrill rides" are not as successful, but still pretty decent attractions. Dinosaur is criticized for having too much dark and empty space. I share the complaint, but on the other hand maybe that reflects what the earth was actually like during the period of time being represented. Kali River Rapids suffers from not being aggressive enough... I don't know if that was reluctance on Disney's part to get too far out there on Disney's first raft ride, or if it was strictly a misstep on Rohde's part. It is also a little too preachy on the environmentalism angle, but that is a product of it's times and what I understand was Eisner's emphasis on the environmentalism message being part of the AK's goal. You also have to remember that Rohde's design for the Beastly Kingdom, the area that was to hold the most ride style attractions, was never built. They tried to boost the ride count in the park by adding Chester and Hester's Dinorama to give the kids something to do once it became clear that Beastly Kingdom was not likely to happen, and it admittedly is NOT my favorite part of the park. But overall I consider the overall look and feel of the park to be an absolute masterpiece, and consider it WDW's most well designed park... by a mile!
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<But overall I consider the overall look and feel of the park to be an absolute masterpiece, and consider it WDW's most well designed park... by a mile!>> It's definitely WDW's most beautiful park, but from a design perspective it's missing one vital thing - Air Conditioned spaces! This is Central Florida for goodness sakes - didn't they think it might be a good idea to have lots of places where people could keep cool - or out of the rain? We were there over the July 4th weekend, and I couldn't believe how few spaces there were to get out of the heat. Almost all of the queues and attractions are outdoors - which just seems nuts in the Florida heat. I know they wanted a natural looking setting - and they certainly achieved that, but they really need to come up with more places for people to cool off.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Case in point - upon leaving Animal Kingdom after a day of sweating, you have to stand out in the full sun to wait for the tram - which then takes you to a parking lot that doesn't even have one single tree! It's horrid out there. To this day, I still can't believe they designed the parking lot that way - and to have no shade while waiting for the tram at the park's entrance is just nuts!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip plpeters... you do have a point. I usually go to WDW during January so heat really isn't an issue. I went there once during July (never again!) and the AK, between the rain and the stifling heat and humidity afterward, was pretty much hell on earth. It has improved in recent years though. The Legend of the Lion King theater has been enclosed and air-conditioned, as was the Tarzan theater when it was converted to the Finding Nemo show. Now, with the shops and ITTBAB on Discovery Island, the shops and Tusker House in Africa, the Yak & Yeti in Asia, the Nemo show and the largely indoor queue of Dinosaur in Dinoland, and the Legend of the Lion King show in Camp Minnie-Mickey, you can find many places to cool off if you plan your day carefully. Although it is outdoors, the shade and refreshing cold beverages of the Dawa Bar in Africa is also a comfortable place to relax. If nothing else, after a couple of drinks the heat doesn't bother you so much!
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Well this was the same company who thought Polyester was a great idea of CM costumes many years ago.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >> The fact that so many complain about the Yeti not working says to me that the original inclusion of it was a very good idea.<< To me it says that its inclusion in the ride was of utmost importance, so you'd think they would have done it right the first time. Whether it was underdesigned or programmed beyond its anticipated range, or whatever, it just shows that it's a critical part of the ride experience. As commander in chief of the park, I think he holds the ultimate responsibility for it holding up. Because it failed so quickly, I don't think it was a maintenance issue, but I also blame park management for not doing anything to fix it >>To this day, I still can't believe they designed the parking lot that way - and to have no shade while waiting for the tram at the park's entrance is just nuts!<< I've read that this was done intentionally, to make the impact of the park's lush entrance even more apparent. Architects love to play with expansion and compression of space (the rotunda in DL's Indy queue feels much larger after being in the caves), so I fully believe that they would try to create a similar mind trick with the approach to theme park. Plus, the park's initial budget was somewhat limited (and seen by a limited number of opening day attractions, with many being added shortly after), so this would definitely help them save money on landscaping an area that really just serves a utilitarian purpose : )
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <I've read that this was done intentionally, to make the impact of the park's lush entrance even more apparent.> Yeah. Reminds me of the lack of berm in Disney's California Adventure when it opened and all visual intrusions from Katella Avenue. The answer? It was intentional -- to bring pieces of the 'real' California into the park. As Kronk says: 'Riiiiiiiigggggghhhhht'
Originally Posted By FerretAfros From a design standpoint, there actually is logic to the DAK parking lot. The only real reason for DCA's lack of berm was that they were being cheap (and had some pretty tough intrustions to hypothetically block out, like the PPH towers and electric lines)
Originally Posted By Captain Neo tacking on an action storyline to Killimanjaro Safari was dumb, Countdown to Extinction leaves alot to be desired and while Kali and Expedition Everest look nice from the outside the rides themselves are very bland with nothing to look at no excitment. Although I think in Kali and EE's case that has to do with budget cutting.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I always thought Kali and to a greater extent Everest were quite exciting. Perhaps you might want to try a Six Flags park.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Jim nailed this one: <<< <I've read that this was done intentionally, to make the impact of the park's lush entrance even more apparent.> Yeah. Reminds me of the lack of berm in Disney's California Adventure when it opened and all visual intrusions from Katella Avenue. The answer? It was intentional -- to bring pieces of the 'real' California into the park. As Kronk says: 'Riiiiiiiigggggghhhhht' >>> FerretAfros said: <<< From a design standpoint, there actually is logic to the DAK parking lot.>>> Uh, no, it doesn't. Note that this specific complaint is about the lack of shade while waiting for the tram at the main entrance - that is, at the end of the day while you are waiting to return to your car. This has nothing to do with providing contrast from the hot parking lot into the lush entrance, as that is done when you enter the park. This sounds very much to me like the "it takes up too much room on the plate" excuse for removing prime rib from the buffet lines.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <The only real reason for DCA's lack of berm was that they were being cheap (and had some pretty tough intrustions to hypothetically block out, like the PPH towers and electric lines)> And yet, 10 years later, Carsland is built and the visual intrusions are gone! I wonder how they justify NOT having those visual intrusions now.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I think Expedition Everest is an excellent Disney coaster. It is consistently downgraded for the non-working Yeti, but I kind of doubt Rohde had much to do with engineering the ride. Once he signed off on the overall concept and design he would have turned it over to others to make it actually work and be maintainable. >>> My understanding is that he was very much involved in the attraction from start to finish, and in particular with regard to how much money was spent. Although he may be primarily an artist, my understanding is that he was also the manager for the project that was responsible for deciding how the money got spent. New E Tickets were becoming mighty pricey, and he was able to bring one in for around $100 million, which is about a third lower than many thought that new ones could or should cost these days, and almost certainly a lot less than had certain other Imagineers been in charge. IIRC, they practically pinned a metal on him for bringing the project home at the price he did. I doubt very much that the Yeti would be in the state he is in today had there not been dramatic price minimization pressure applied during design and construction. <<< I don't think it was a maintenance issue, but I also blame park management for not doing anything to fix it >>> That's a big problem in of itself. The various department and park heads are under tremendous pressure to "deliver the numbers" as they say. Unless they get a special grant from the Board or some other high authority that would be accounted for outside of their normal reporting, the money to fix the Yeti would have to come from somewhere - that is, from somewhere else in the park that is also in need of money. Nobody is going to put their job on the line to approve the money to fix the Yeti if it results in a quarterly or annual target that's under their control being significantly missed, and it may be expensive enough of a proposition that you'd see major impact elsewhere if it were done in a cost-neutral fashion. There may be no easy answer to the Yeti at this point.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 What Disney thinks about the Yedi as a show piece will be known when Everest goes down for an extended rehab at some point. If they don't fix the Yeti at that next juncture, we can expect it will never be fixed. Personally I think it needs to be fixed. It was an amazing AA figure and added to the experience
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^I agree. At the very least, they should be able to disable the AA mechanics and come up with another solution. Rigging him up like a marionette and getting some arm motion (even if it's as simple as the Matterhorn's abomnible snowman's arm wag) would help a lot. Since that scene is so quick and relatively dark, I don't think seeing the wires would be a huge issues, assuming there's room in the mountain structure above the yeti to rig it >>And yet, 10 years later, Carsland is built and the visual intrusions are gone!<< Eh, sort of. Carsland blocked out the electrical towers, but the lines themselves are still visible between the peaks of the Cadillac Range. And of course, Carsland did nothing to address the visual intrusions in the Paradise Pier area. We can still see the Paradise Pier Hotel, the Anaheim Convention center, the Hilton, those very same power lines and poles, the Grand California (while pretty, completely unrelated to a seaside pier), and the parade barn behind Screamin's loading area (added after park opening to accommodate the Electrical Parade). Even bits of the Carsland rockwork leave something to be desired from the PP area, though it appears that they're adding some sort of graphic-printed tarp to the backside, which may help with this issue. Yes, Carsland was able to do something about it, but it was also in an area of the park with fewer visual intrusions in the first place. Through very careful manipulation of the line of sight, they probably could have done something else in the Pier area, but there's really no way to do it with that theme as it requiers wide open spaces, which would require enormous structures to block out the things across the street.
