Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Much has been written on these boards about FP. Their benefits, their costs, and their "fairness." FP is a good idea, until they run out for that day. Then it becomes some level of "unfair" to everyone in Standby for the rest of that day. Making FP a Pay-For option is interesting. It would at least make me feel better by knowing that they guy who's passing me up had to pay for the privelege. But I just don't like the "caste creation" effect of pay for privelege. So here's a new idea. (Post #2) It's a way to shift the cost of FPs that have run out back onto at least some of the FPer's themselves, and not just the poor schmoes in the Standby line. I am really interested in hearing what you all might have to say about this notion.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy A new idea to make FP more fair for everyone Use FP's as defined and as they work now until they are gone for the day for that attraction. But if FP's run out for that day, then all FP's for that attraction beyond say, 3 hours from now, are cancelled. They are no longer valid. For example -- If FP's for Soarin' run out at 2pm, then all FP's through 5pm would be honored. But from 5pm for the rest of the day Soarin' is just flat out Standby. Any FP's that were given out with times later than 5pm are "cancelled" due to ride popularity. This at least spreads the "unfairness" to include some people who already have FP's. Everyone using FP would have to understand that if you ever get an FP ticket for more than 3 hours out from now, that that ticket might not be honored when you return. So you should check the electronic tip boards in the park before returning to that ride to be sure.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I have stated before that the fairest way to offer FP would be to offer it in a Lottery-type way, just like the offer central seating for castle shows at TDL, where all guests, regardless of the time they arrive at the park, have a crack trying their luck at getting one. That way all guests win or loose equally. The other idea is too block off all guests from Texas from getting one, just becase. Of course, this would inconvenience Labuda greatly, but we'll manage to convince someone to give her a Dream FP so she can still enjoy the parks. All other Texans are permanently blocked off. Hehehe...
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> The other idea is too block off all guests from Texas from getting one, just because... << <chuckle>
Originally Posted By Labuda "The other idea is too block off all guests from Texas from getting one, just becase. Of course, this would inconvenience Labuda greatly, but we'll manage to convince someone to give her a Dream FP so she can still enjoy the parks. All other Texans are permanently blocked off. Hehehe..." Can I get one for whoever I'm travelling with if I'm not on a solo trip?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Can I get one for whoever I'm travelling with if I'm not on a solo trip? << My thought too. I like the idea of an FP lottery solution, but would that work with groups? If you can get an FP at all, you'd need it for the whole group for the same time
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I hate the lottery idea. In some ways it's even less fair. Let's take Disneyland for example. Every evening and weekend, locals turn out in hoards. Some visit weekly, or even more often. At the same time, an LPer flys in from Australia or the UK having sacrificed and saved for a year or two to go there. The local gets a FP - someone who can go whenever. And the distant traveller maybe isn't lucky and has to queue three times as long as the local. This does not seem fair at all. Whereas, if these people can aim to get to the parks early, they all have an equal chance of getting a FP. To me that's the best solution. It's virtual queing. Just like the pre fast pass days, if you were there for rope drop, you have a much shorter queue than arriving at 2pm, so too is how the fastpass works. TDLFAN - you getting there late and not having FP is equivelent of getting into a really long queue. The only difference is your eyes cannot see how long it is.
Originally Posted By MPierce I think you are going in the right direction ssWEDguy, the 3 hours seems fair. How about no FP period after 5:00 PM or strictly enforcing the time printed on the pass. I think TDLFAN is on to something also, ban TEXANS from the FP line.....HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, I'm from TEXAS!
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<For example -- If FP's for Soarin' run out at 2pm, then all FP's through 5pm would be honored. But from 5pm for the rest of the day Soarin' is just flat out Standby. Any FP's that were given out with times later than 5pm are "cancelled" due to ride popularity.>> A truly HORRIBLE idea. So, if a guest got to the machine at noon, and it gave a time of 6:00 pm, and then two hours later the FP's "sell out," the guest is out of luck?! Can you imagine how well that would go over? The folks at City Hall would love you. NOT. IMO you're trying to fix a problem for a minority of guests. Most people who understand how FP works realize nothing is perfect, and that the current system works fairly, and fairly well. If a majority of guests were unhappy with the current FP system, I would say your ideas deserved more attention. But I sincerely doubt that is the case. In my memory, you are the only poster here on LP who regularly starts these FP debates; no one else places anywhere near the priority on this "problem" as you do.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Ah, but you are so wrong...many of us feel that way. The majority here, on this website, use the system to their advantage. Other people are on vacation and the commando style of touring is not part of their plans. They do not know that FP will run out...they do not, in some cases, know that they even exist. They do not know that they have to get there at the crack of dawn to get one that is even a little reasonable in its timing. Responding by saying,"they should have done some research" does not float. It occurs to very few people that they have to do homework to go to a theme park. It's supposed to be fun, not work. Possibly because of their bad first impression at Disney they will never be a part of this site. They did it once and, even though they had a good time generally, they were frustrated at standing in long, long lines watching others cut in front and so on. If you don't think that this has long range ramifications connected with it, then, my friend, you are living with your head in the sand in a world with a pink sky and marshmallow clouds overhead. Those of us that think FP should be directed to the same fate 20K Leagues had, do so, not because of current convenience, but because we see it as an invisible thorn in the side of the thing we really love and that is Disney. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I really don't believe that FP serves a sufficient useful purpose to be saved. It needs to be gone.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<but you are so wrong...many of us feel that way>> I didn't say ssWEDguy was the only one. I know there are a few, otherwise there would be zero discussion about it. But I maintain it is a minority. <<They do not know that FP will run out...they do not, in some cases, know that they even exist.>> Very few guests visit WDW for a single day. I absolutely cannot fathom someone not knowing about, or asking about FP after seeing these "others cut in front and so on." <<Possibly because of their bad first impression at Disney they will never be a part of this site>> As I said above, I think there are other issues that are of greater concern to most that would lead to a bad impression.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>TDLFAN - you getting there late and not having FP is equivelent of getting into a really long queue. The only difference is your eyes cannot see how long it is.<< I have to say your analogy makes no sense to me.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>I know there are a few, otherwise there would be zero discussion about it. But I maintain it is a minority.<<< And if you are referring to those of us on this site, you are probably correct. >>>Very few guests visit WDW for a single day. I absolutely cannot fathom someone not knowing about, or asking about FP after seeing these "others cut in front and so on."<<< If you have never been to WDW before it takes more than one day to become knowledgeable about the parks. Even if you did know that FP was available you wouldn't know which ones you should go after first. FP is for multiple time visitors, not the first timer. Unfortunately, the first time may be the last for some. >>>As I said above, I think there are other issues that are of greater concern to most that would lead to a bad impression.<<< If you are referring to the general lessening of WDW quality since they are first timers they have no basis of comparison so therefore are completely oblivious to the alleged decline. What they do see, however, are long lines and people that they feel are "cutting" the line. Not an easy image to get over.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> In my memory, you are the only poster here on LP who regularly starts these FP debates; no one else places anywhere near the priority on this "problem" as you do. << Maybe. But at least they will remember Captain Jack Sparrow. But if you look closely, you'll see that I only bring up subjects anew when I have something new to say about them. I'm not just poking a stick into a sore spot every once in a while just to raise hackles. No one has to read these boards. No one has to respond to them. If you don't like a subject, go somewhere else. You're fighting a losing battle to try to convince someone to dry up, or that they're wrong. But I would point out that FP always generates enthusiastic discussion, both for and against. Where there's smoke, there's fire. -------------------------- Speaking of new ideas -- if you don't like the cancellation idea, then how about this one? Don't open up FastPass at all until 2 hours after rope drop. It strikes me that people who arrive at the park at open time don't really need FP, at least those first 2 hours. There are no lines. Just go on the attraction you want to. Repeated times. If someone in that category is grabbing FP's early in the morning, they're hoarding.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> we see it as an invisible thorn in the side of the thing we really love and that is Disney. It needs to be gone. << Well said.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> go somewhere else << I honestly didn't mean for that to come out as direct as that. I respect and value thoughtful posters. They keep my thinking honest.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>they do not, in some cases, know that they even exist<<< Fastpass is explained just fine in the guidemaps, and featured prominently. It's not rocket science. Anybody who can't figure it out could EASILY ask a cast member what it was all about, if they were so inclined (It's pretty obvious that SOMETHING is going on, with all the fastpass signs and seperate entrances and all). If they can't figure out such a simple system, that's not the problem of the REST of us who take advantage of what's offered. People show up for shows 1 minute before showtime and are denied entrance all the time because the theater is full. Is that the fault of the people who arrived early to make sure they got in? Is that "unfair"? First come first served is plenty fair enough. You snooze, you lose.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***>>TDLFAN - you getting there late and not having FP is equivelent of getting into a really long queue. The only difference is your eyes cannot see how long it is.<< I have to say your analogy makes no sense to me.*** I believe what he means is that all those fast pass holders are "in line" ahead of you...even if they haven't arrived yet. So you have to line up "behind" many more people than you actually see standing in front of you (and passing by you annoyingly ). make sense?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN NO. And Mr X. Remember the japanese have mastered the FP system, unlike some dumb tourists who visit WDW. Not everyone on vacation studies how to do WDW like the japanese study (and learn) how to tackle TDR before they go thru the turnstyle.
