Originally Posted By Mr X I wonder why the heck it's not legal here in Japan!!?? <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z14iuazhuTQ&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a>
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hmmmm, please do not dis all home schooling. For many disabled children or children who have parents with disabilities, it can be an awesome experience. My brothers were homeschooled because of being in and out of hospital every week. My parents put together a curriculum and events, and worked with the school district. The result is my 16 year old brother is in college now. So it's not all bad, but some of it, sadly is.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, did you watch the link though? I think it's fine in some cases, but as it was noted in the video, 75% of those home schooled in America come from evangelical Christian families. And I've no doubt a lot of the "lessons" are similar to the one shown here!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Interesting in the video how in order to "teach" creationism, the mom has to also teach that evolution is wrong and a political idea. She also teaches that global warming is wrong. Why even bring up the subjects of evolution and global warming at all if they aren't what you want to teach? Why does the curriculum even talk about the issues as though they're controversial? Why not just teach the ideas you want to teach without giving a hint that they might be off base enough to cause a controversy?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I did X, and sadly I have seen some similar evidence on video in the clssrooms of the US as well, even scarier. We do have a big push on now in the UK to look at new vetting and barring procedures for home school situations as well as the right to interview children and young people without their parents. It is a very controversial debate, but this one adds evidence to be in favour (though my liberal stance makes that one hard to swallow).
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy In the long run, home schooled children generally can't compete as well when it comes time to integrate with the rest of society. If this is the outcome parents want for their children, I am fine with that. There are plenty of parents who will get all emotional and defensive about how their home schooled children perform just fine and better than the others, but the data just don't support them.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<My brothers were homeschooled because of being in and out of hospital every week. My parents put together a curriculum and events, and WORKED WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.>> That's the distinction right there. They didn't go it alone, and received guidance and feedback from professional educators. Most folks who home school in this country do so for political and/or religious reasons, i.e., they don't want their kids exposed to "wrong headed thinking" and be "indoctrinated into the commie pinko liberal gay friendly lifestyle." As part of my undergrad senior project, I interviewed parents of twins about their children's language skills. One pair were being home schooled by their mom, who was a former school teacher. These kids were getting a solid education in the basics, but... they were also being sheltered from differing viewpoints about the world, since their parents were rabid fundamentalists who mistrusted anyone who wasn't a white Christian. (Yeah, the racial slurs appeared towards the end of the interview.) Home schooling like dave is describing is actually better for kids with health concerns than dealing with the public system away from home. But most home schooling today is severely lacking in critical thinking, and perpetuates the vicious cycle of an uneducated and ignorant working class who watches Fox News for "the truth" and believes everything they hear from Beck and Limbaugh 110%.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Yes, I think that some of those home schooled are being equally "indoctrinated". It's funny how one side doesn't want kids exposed to "liberal ideas" at public school, but has no problem only providing them with the Evangelical view at home. In the video, it's pretty disturbing that evolution and global warming are taught as political issues. I agree with Sport Goofy, why are they even bringing it up? Why not teach the basics without getting into controversy? Especially since the textbook was obviously biased to one side. Once that kid goes off to college or into the work force, his views will be totally limited. Also, by not allowing him to have any other views expressed or interact with other kids who might have something different to say, I think that's harmful. Not to say a classroom couldn't be harmful as well. I went to Christian school, and some of those same things were taught. The major issue I have with Evangelicals home schooling, is that quite a lot of them have absolutely no qualifications to teach children. Despite being good parents, not all people are cut out to be good teachers.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Once that kid goes off to college or into the work force, his views will be totally limited.>> But that's the problem that isn't being addressed as much as it should be. These kids will NEVER get into college, and I doubt they'll ever enter the office-based work force. Service sector jobs or agriculture or the military will be their only options. These kids receive such a limited education, that to say they're even "educated" is a reach. The overwhelming majority of them could never get into college without financial aid, and their lack of adequate test scores (SAT or ACT) will prevent them from qualifying for aid, let alone college admissions requirements. There's also an undercurrent of pride with this group, in not being educated. These home schooling parents are PROUD of not being college graduates, or not listening to or watching "elitist" news shows, or voting with the "liberal Nazi" party that will eventually destroy "the America they know and love." I agree that these parents are not educated or skilled enough themselves to teach anyone the basics of primary school curriculum. That's bad. But to keep their kids away from the "real world" and inculcate an attitude of education as being "elitist" or "socialist" is the real damage. These kids will grow up and not know how to integrate with society to any level of success, which will further keep them isolated and impoverished as were their parents. Then they will marry and treat their children the same way, and on and on it goes. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. We're creating a nation of idiots by allowing home schooling without stricter guidelines and pedagogical foundations. If you want to teach your kids at home, then either hire a credentialed teacher who uses the local school district's curriculum and objectives, or go back to school and become a credentialed teacher yourself. Otherwise, stick your kids in school like everyone else and deal with it. Individual liberties must take a back seat to the greater needs of society. Having an uneducated populace harms society in more ways than can be measured.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Individual liberties must take a back seat to the greater needs of society.> Scary stuff, that. Necessary in very, very, very limited scope, but let that get out of control, and you no longer have the Land of the Free.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo With freedom comes responsibility. What happens when one's pursuit of liberty has a negative impact on others. There is a natural equilibrium and teaching climate change as a myth frankly is a form of ecological abuse. Liberty is essentual, but then too, we owe society a debt and must pay forward our conduct to future generations.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<Individual liberties must take a back seat to the greater needs of society.> Scary stuff, that. Necessary in very, very, very limited scope, but let that get out of control, and you no longer have the Land of the Free.*** This from a guy who claims equal rights only matter if the majority (local or otherwise) deem it to be acceptable. That's about as free as a caged bird.
Originally Posted By wendebird Homeschooling is always near & dear to my heart. I homeschooled my kids for 7 years, however we used a charter school & had a facilitator that we checked in with every month. I had some freedom as to the curriculum I chose. My kids took outside classes (art, science, creative writing, musical theater, dance, piano, etc) at their charter school. I know there are extreme cases, many who believe in child lead learning, no curriculum, staying up all night to finish a novel & sleeping all day (and these are the non-religious, anti-establishment people I've met) My kids are in their 2nd year of public school & doing wonderful. My 8th grader's teacher has nothing but wonderful things to say about my daughter. That she's helpful, good leadership skills, respectful, participates in class, works hard on her assignments, etc. Maybe we're in the minority, but not all homeschool is bad. I find it sad the extreme cases are the ones that always seem to make their way into the news & draw the most attention.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <This from a guy who claims equal rights only matter if the majority (local or otherwise) deem it to be acceptable.> Gay marriage is not an equal rights matter.
Originally Posted By utahjosh But we've had that discussion once or twice before, and most people here disagree with me, so I probably shouldn't bring it up. Oh, wait...X brought it up. I shouldn't reply to his derailing of the topic.
Originally Posted By Mr X I can derail my own topic if I want to. Besides, who's derailing? You made a statement about individual liberties and "the Land of the Free", and I called you out for being a hypocrite. Right on topic, or at least in line with the conversation.
Originally Posted By mele I'm glad you posted here, wende. Because of you and your girls, I've got a different view of home schooling than I did before.
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't think home schooling is a bad concept per se (particularly in these cases where it's done with assistance from educators, and I like hearing about those extracurricular programs too!), but it's just interesting what kinds of people choose it and for what reasons.
Originally Posted By wendebird You didn't ask Mr X, but would you like to know why I chose it? I bet it's for a reason you've never heard of before.
