Originally Posted By SIR at X-S Tech A while ago I griped about how unprofessional Store CM's have become. This manifested itself in talking about business goals onstage and being too pushy with selling. Well I've realized that this type of unprofessionalism is rampant and not only in Stores. Each time I visit the park, I witness CM's behaving in ways that while, not offensive in the general sense of the word, are definately unbecoming of the Disney image. I think I've complained before about CM's crossing between DCA and the Paradise Pier Hotel in costume, smoking, talking on cell phones etc... Now I know that the arguement has been made that "they are off the clock, and (at least while they are in the street) off property. We can't police everybody in their off time". I understand that. But what I'm also coming to understand is that there is a level of CM who would police themself- who has enough pride about the Disney parks, and their representation of that park, that would not exhibit these behaviors while in costume, even though they could very well get away with it with no repurcussions. Then there's the type of CM who seems to be becoming more and more prevalant. This is the CM who likes to complain about his job at Disney (sometimes onstage), who is the cynic. They are simply there to make a paycheck but aren't smart enough to realize that there are plenty of better places to earn money if that is your goal. They don't give a rip for themeing, atmosphere, or the guest experience. They want to hang out with their friends, goof off and go home. This seems to be the type of CM that's taking over the park. Now I'm a realist. I've always known that while Disney hires some great people who love their jobs, a large portion of their work staff is not going to be the Disney Geek crowd. I guess I expected that most of the CM's would be of a third type- those who aren't hardcore Disney fans, but who nonetheless strive to do thier job well and make a good experience for guests. Perhaps I've been wrong and this third group isn't as large as I thought. Now some specifics: At the park during the recent Gay Days (also known as Red Shirt Days among CM's), I was shopping and there was a guest wearing a T shirt with a pretty offensive slogan. It didn't have any profanity but it basically said that this wearer of the shirt would work for a certain "type" of ...um er...job. Nice. So this young guy is talking to some nice old CM ladies and chatting about his merchandise. And he's blabbing about being a Cast Member. He's got his ID on a lanyard around his neck as well. Regardless of his orientation, I thought that advertising his CM status at the same time as his bedroom activities was crass to say the least and not something the Company would be happy with. But he's off the clock and heaven forbid we stifle a member of a repressed minority expressing themself even when such expression would otherwise be deemed inappropriate. Needless to say, I'm sure nobody did anything about his shirt. The last time I was at the park I was waiting for someone over by the Corn Dog wagon on Main St. There was a CM from the Plaza Inn sitting on a bench talking to a friend. I kinda did a double take- I didn't think CM's were aloud to sit on stage. I did wonder if perhaps there was a problem which would warrent an exception- she seemed to be talking to the friend rather earnestly and being so close to First Aid perhaps the friend needed medical help and she was merely trying to get close enough to be helpful. But no. The longer I sat, the closer they got. They held each others hand and looked into each other's eyes longingly. They smiled and whispered. When my friend walked up with a bag of Cotton Candy from nearby, the CM shouted from her bench "Hey how much was that Cotton Candy?". I was polite and answereed, but inside I was just flabbergasted at how totally unprofessional and somwhat impolite this young girl was. There were three other families sitting within 15 feet of the CM, none of whom seemed to mind anything, but I can't help thinking that that's just a sad statement about how permissive Disney's become. No she wasn't doing anything bad by societies standards but she's also not the sort of CM that Disney claims to employ. Eventually the girl's lead came out and with a confused look on is face said, "What's going on?" "Break," she said. I didn't get his reaction but she wrapped up her rendevous and headed backstage. She didn't seem worried that she'd been caught. Merely mad at the "man" who was cramping her style. If anything it seemed like she was in trouble more for being late coming back than for holding hands and sitting down onstage. These two incidents, along with countless others, have really lowered my opinion of CM's at Disneyland, and decreased my enjoyment of the park significantly. I love the park, and I can overlook certain drawbacks and appreciate the theming and the design of teh park. But can the normal guest? Will the first timers, or the casual visitors bother to come back when the staff is crass and unprofessional?
Originally Posted By DlandDug It is saddening. I resigned myself to this over a year ago when a cast member, in costume, was walking through DCA, talking on a cell phone. That's bad enough, but he was having an animated (and rather loud) conversation laced with profanity, not the least of which the "Queen Mother" of dirty words. He did not appear to be angry-- just talkin' on the phone during his break, no doubt.
Originally Posted By 999HAUNTS I too have witnessed a CM in costume actually kissing their better half. I didn't think this was allowed.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal Whether CM's are in costume or not, if they are onstage and identifiable as a CM they are supposed to conduct themselves commensurate with the expectations set forth in orientation. As a former hourly CM and manager, it angers me to see this happening. Therefore, wearing a shirt with an off-color saying AND wearing an ID at the same time is not acting appropriately. As a Main Entrance manager I occasionally asked Guests to either turn their shirts inside out or change them due to profanity or sexual remarks on the shirt. Smoking AND wearing a costume at the same time...not appropriate. Same for cell phone conversations. It's ridiculous. Maybe I'll apply back at the Resort to be the Disney Show police. That was my unofficial job at the Main Entrance anyway. The CM's would go out of their way to show me that their socks were the right color. And they all knew better than to be drinking, eating, smoking, talking on a phone, etc. while onstage. I understand that the costume situation (where the CM's take them home) has changed things. But it still makes me angry and the Disney Look needs to be maintained in all Guest areas at all times.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal ^^^as for kissing onstage while in costume/nametag, it's NOT allowed.
Originally Posted By John_CM I'm saddened to see all of the CM behavior listed here, but it doesn't surprise me. Some CMs aren't even told about some of these rules. I was once giving a break to another cast member, and when she came back, she was talking on her cell phone onstage, the whole time she was walking back to her location. When I told her that it wasn't allowed, she said that no one had ever told her that, and I believed her. This was about 3 years ago, by the way. The CM's that cross over to the Simba lot from the Paradise Pier gate are supposed to follow the same rules as they do when they're working, as long as they are onstage. On the Harbor side of the park, where the shuttles take us back to our parking lot, CMs are not allowed to be talking on a cell phone while waiting for the shuttle, as long as they are in costume. Now, whether this was told to them by their leads, I don't know. I find that some of the most important information that's supposed to go to the cast, sometimes doesn't get passed on at all, because some departments don't even have a regular check-in. I work in stores, and some of ours last up to 20-30 minutes at times, depending on how much new information there is to pass on for the day. If you see this kind of behavior happening, the only way it's going to get better is if you complain about it to someone. If I saw a CM doing this stuff onstage, I would tell them not to, or tell their lead.
Originally Posted By disneysrc The problem is that Disneyland Resort needs to pay their employees more. If you're paying on the lower end of the scale, regardless of who you are, you're going to get the 'bottom of the barrel' in terms of people who are only there 'for the paycheck'. Disney is having such a hard time keeping the employees they already have, much less being able to weed out undesireables. If they paid their employees more, they would have a much better selection of applicants and employees. I really think it's beyond the control of the managers and this needs to be dealt with on a COMPANY-WIDE scale.
Originally Posted By SIR at X-S Tech Yeah the pay probably is the biggest issue. Though it would probably help, at least in the short term, to tell the CM when they are doing something they shouldn't. What was so disheartening is the number of CM's who passed the Plaza Inn CM, saw her, and didn't say a thing. THey weren't her superiors but complacency is a big part of it.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<The problem is that Disneyland Resort needs to pay their employees more.>> THAT'S the problem, plain and simple. Like its been said, Disney is paying the lowest dollar, so who do think they are going to get?? I don't pretend how it was to work for the park in the 70's and 80's, but I have a sneaking suspision that working for the mouse just doesn't have the lure and glamour that it did then to say you work at Disneyland for the average high school and college student anymore. My girlfriend in High School back then worked there and yes, it was just a paycheck for her, but she did her job and always acted accordingly of course (and we were already broken up by the time she worked there, so no benefits for me ). Also, I think Disney puts up with a little more of it is because, like someone said, they are desparate to keep the employees they got as it is. It's easy to be cutthroat when you are a company that people are begging to work with a steady stream of applications, but its very different when the reality is that most would probably walk in a heartbeat if they don't have a family to support or a housing note to pay and the park is expected to run 365 days a year with a fully trained staff, period. Although I'm not in the American parks often, it DOES feel like a huge difference between the Tokyo park and the American ones. Not trying to pull a TDLFAN lol, but its true. Most of the CMs I encountered this summer in Anaheim were generally good and helpful people (one woman at the camera center on MS went out of her way to help me get my camera back when I left it at the desk. Of course, she GAVE it to another guest lol, but it was an honest mistake and gave me a cheap one at no charge and was very sorry--still miss that camera though), but there were certainly a few that I saw that seem to take it as working at a McDonalds and I guess when you are making McDonalds scale and ALSO dealing with some of us just as rude guest, its hard to keep up the apperance of the day long smile and "I just love working here" attitude. To a lot of those people, they don't see any 'traditions' to up hold, just as long as they show up and put in their time. Trying to 'get' what its all about is not something some are willing to do when they probably feel they are getting paid too low for what they are asked to do. But, they manage to put up with it in Japan lol, so I don't know, but I guess its just more of a deeper cultural issue in Japan since ANYWHERE you go, you are going to encounter the happy, eager-to-please robots where as in America we seem to only expect it at the Gap and Disney now ;D.
Originally Posted By BrerOtter I've noticed a lot of this, too, and not just from the "keeping up appearances" standpoint of no cellphones, smoking, etc. (Every time I see this, I think of the story of Walt himself becoming annoyed at the sight of a spaceman in Frontierland). CM attitude and courtesy have really gone downhill over the years. After having lived in SoCal and been to DL a lot when I was a kid, I started going to WDW pretty frequently as a young adult. CM compliance tends to be a lot better there - not sure if it's because of the "vacation resort" atmosphere, or what. But coming back to DL was kind of jarring. Recent example...I'm pretty technically clumsy, machines hate me, and I somehow manage to get the FastPass machines to work only about 5% of the time. I was having trouble with the Indiana Jones FP one day and you would have thought that I was interrupting the CM from something really important. He was just standing there, but it looked like I ruined his whole day to ask for help. Made me feel really stupid. I've also noticed a few shop CMs on the rude side. Everything from kind of smirking in a mocking way at the "Disney Geeks" like me to the DCA CM who flat-out told me (I'm a pin trader) that she wouldn't trade with me because her pins were only for kids. I'd never heard of this, and if it's something new, she could have let me know a little more politely. She was really blunt and kind of rude about it. As I was walking away from the cart, she caught up with me and asked me which of her pins I wanted - apparently her lead was there and she couldn't trade in front of her or she'd be in trouble. On the whole, CMs are still a pretty great group of people. But I agree, there are some starting to give CMs a bad name. I typically visit DLR by myself (my wife's not a fan, just a "Disney widow") or with an adult friend, and interacting with CMs used to be one of the little perks of my visits -from a simple "How are things going today" on up to pin trading and more lengthy conversations. Now, some CMs are becoming more unapproachable.
Originally Posted By Stupid_american Were these people lied to when hired? Was their promised wage cut after they signed on? If the pay is an issue, work where you feel they pay is sufficient. This is like people who rationalize criminal activity based on someone being poor.
Originally Posted By MrToadWildRider >>Were these people lied to when hired? Was their promised wage cut after they signed on? If the pay is an issue, work where you feel they pay is sufficient. This is like people who rationalize criminal activity based on someone being poor.<< Are you serious? You realize you can't just have -any- job you'd like right? A high school drop out can't just walk into a law firm and get hired you realize I hope.... Low-pay usually indicates less requirements in both education and experience...and sometimes personal hygiene and manners....which means it's the only job "The bottom of the barrel" can get. If you can get 7 dollars an hour at Disney or 0 dollars an hour working no where what would you choose? Oh, and correlations between criminal behavior and poverty/socio-economic status exist and are very present and recordable. I just think maybe that was a sarcastic post that I just missed the sarcastic tone
Originally Posted By Tiggirl Stupid_american, I think the point is that if Disney paid more they would get a wider range of applicants, perhaps more people that already have a customer service background, and therefore be able to pick more qualified cast members. I'd go back to working at Disney if they paid more and I have over 7 years in Customer Service (4 of those years in an airline complaint department. Nothing rattles me when I'm with a guest). But I can't afford to work for them. LOL! BrerOtter, if the CM was wearing a teal colored lanyard she would only be able to trade with children under 12. But either way... she should have certainly explained it better to you. Sorry about that! ~Beth
Originally Posted By hopemax Did everyone see the stats from Al's latest update? "Some statistics were making the rounds in TDA recently that showed that the average Cast Member in 1980, Disneyland's 25th Anniversary, made $9.93 an hour back then. Adjusted for inflation, that would be just over 25 dollars an hour in 2005 "Disney" dollars! And the average seniority of the 1980 Cast Members was just over 11 years. Sadly, the average Cast Member in 2005 is only making $9.89, and it should come as no surprise that after Presenteeism wreaked havoc in the hourly ranks, the average seniority of a 2005 Cast member (of those that are left) is now only nine months!"
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Were these people lied to when hired? Was their promised wage cut after they signed on? If the pay is an issue, work where you feel they pay is sufficient. This is like people who rationalize criminal activity based on someone being poor.>> I think you're missing the point a little. I don't think they 'hate' their job so much as they are probably just apathetic about it, like most people actually are about their jobs. The difference is though that this is DISNEY!!!!! You can't act 'normal' so much as 'on' all the time and I think most don't get that or don't care, but probably just don't see it as a big issue, just like someone who probably works at Burger King probably don't see the big deal of maintaing the name and image of Burger King. Some are just there until they can get something better or graduate from school, period. But this is no different than any customer service job at any place, there are rude police officers, waiters, clerks, salespeople, doctors, mechanics, flight attendants and etc at any place, any time. Working at a theme park isn't going to be any different . The difference is IF its really a problem for Disney, they have to weed those people out or better train them, but the rude employee isn't going to up and quit because they don't feel they are upholding the standards of the Walt Disney Company, especially when they probably feel they aren't doing anything all that wrong to begin with. Like I said, I think most peoples attitudes about low wage jobs is if they just show up everyday and do it, that's all that is really expected of them. Disney has to remind them that that's not all.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal I'm sorry but pay has very little to do with it. It's an enforcement (and role modeling) issue among the management. I started at Disneyland in 1992 making $8.00 or so an hour, that's with my second language premium and in Guest Relations where there are no union dues and the like. The expectations were made clear and there were consequences for not following them. While I agree that CM's could be paid more, and probably should be...they don't deserve $25.00 an hour. That number adjusted for inflation is absurd. Maybe they were being overpaid back then. In any case, there ARE good CM's out there who follow the rules. The problem is in the enforcement and the role modeling by all levels of management and leadership. It's a personal pride thing which, admittedly, can be affected by money. But it's not the biggest problem. Enforcement is.
Originally Posted By Tiggirl WD.. I just responded to a post of your in a meet thread that you posted in August. And I feel super bad about not responding before but I didn't see it. LOL! Anyhoo... Its sad that you could make more working at In n Out with better benefits than Disneyland. ~Beth
Originally Posted By SIR at X-S Tech Re post #16 Well it's not that more pay would make the CM's perform better. It's that better pay would attract better CM's- and I think that it has everything to do with it. You say you were hired into Guest relations and that they had a very clear set of rules and consequences. They were able to have those rules because of who they choose for guest relations. If you populated Guest relations with nothing but uninterested schlubbs (is that a word?) it wouldn't matter how well you regulated behavior. It wouldn't make an uninterested CM behave in a way that he/she didn't believe in.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal Yes, but at In-N-Out you're not working at Disneyland. Nor are you getting to bring upwards of 40 people a year free to the Parks. No, the pay isn't great. But from the time I was hired as a CR in Guest Relations I was paid benefits and those continued while I was in management. The pay isn't the highest end of the scale, but it's not the lowest either. It's a trade off and definitely isn't for everyone. The fact that I worked at Disneyland and had the perks that come along with it more than compensated for the extra money I might have made at another business.
Originally Posted By Blacksheep Uncle re In-and-Out, but that's always been the case hasn't it?... back when I was in high school (shortly after the earth started cooling and man began walking upright) In-and-Out was THE PLACE to work in soCal, best money, best bennies, etc...so it isn't surprising that's still the case these days...
