Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Food. Important. Tasty. Life-sustaining. An integral part of a magical WDW vacation, right? Well, to see all those morbidly obese folks at the MK, it must be (even if all they eat is fried, greasy junk food). Here's a theory: WDW Dining is heading to an all-time low due to a pin-trading sized push for selling its dining plan to onsite guests. Much like DVC (shout outs to my DVCer pals Trippy and CubbiesQueen), Disney is using the dining plan as a guaranteed profit in the bank before you ever arrive at WDW. You've bought your meals in advance. So, please follow me, where's the incentive to provide the same level of quality ... and with the gratuity included, service too? Why not continue lowering quality and selections? Much like a DVCer who's paid for their vacations for decades to come, the meals are paid for and you aren't getting a refund if there suddenly is only four entrees on the menu. I can't help but notice this as menus shrink even more, favorite items are eliminated, prices go up, restaurants have every table booked weeks and months out ... and, oh yeah, one of the key execs involved in the marketing/selling of the dining plan got a major promotion based on short term gain he was able to help generate with the plan (the second of his very ordinary career, btw). In the meantime, things are cut, more of the Disney quality gets wittled away. Some examples of the lowering of quality across the board: Don't expect a bread service with any lunch across property because Disney has determined that they just can't afford to offer it. I watched a European family (on said dining plan) react with shock at Captain Jack's last week when told 'they took all our bread away ... all we have is the sandwich bread and we're not allowed to give that out.' I saw this coming months ago at Liberty Tree Tavern. Now, it's property-wide. A manager at a DD restaurant (an operating partner) that participates in the plan explained how his menu has changed three times recently because they can't afford to give away their higher quality items the way Disney (AKA ... WALTmart) can, so less choice, less quality for everyone. One of my fave locations for a drink at Epcot, the Matsunoma lounge in Japan is no longer open. No, it's been made into overflow seating for the restaurants at Japan destroying yet another location. Now, why is the pavillion's restauarants so popular in 2006 when for 24 years there's been no need to expand? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the WALTmart dining plan. When a group of us tried to have drinks there the other day, the manager at the podium (clearly a local, not Japanese) explained the situation to us. Then, afraid we were either execs in disguise or consultants (which of course we are, just the non-paid variety), came after us, noticing our disgust, and offered to get us the first table available and assured us that even if we had only drinks and no appetizer we'd still be served. We politely declined saying if the servers are now used to 18% gratuities on large food checks, they aren't going to be happy with four people (two of which don't drink alcohol) having a drink or two. You can now go to Wendy's and get a white-meat chicken breast sandwich for 99 cents. But don't expect to find any quality chicken (or beef) at Yakitori House (again, once one of my fave quick serve eateries). After two-plus decades of serving high quality breast meat, about 18 months ago YH switched to some kind of mystery, low quality, dark, disgusting chunks. I complained through intermediaries ... who were lied to that 'we only use the finest products.' So it must be just me, right? No one notices these things, right? People would eat cow turd if Disney served it, right? Apparently not. I've heard that Disney has received MANY complaints about the obviously lower quality (and yet higher priced, funny huh?) meat now used. But in an incredibly ballsy show, did Disney raise the quality back? Nah. They just now in big bold letters on the menu let you know that you are getting assorted THIGH meat. In other words, they proudly tell you they are serving crap that even McDonald's won't put in their Nuggets. Where's the OLC when you need them? Price gouging is in full force. $40 for salmon at Artist Point? Fish is expensive, what can you do? Or is it designed to simply let people on the plan THINK they are getting a deal, while encouraging those who aren't to think twice? Then there's the poor CMs. Apparently due to all the people getting the food plan for free from 8/13 through 9/30, all CM food discounts are suspended for this period. Yes. Again Disney shows just how much they value their cast. I actually had to break this news to a handful of frontliners who hadn't heard about it. Finally, at the risk of being called a hypocrite, I admit I'm going to be on the dining plan this fall too. Considering that I'm a fat guy that likes to eat, I thought it was worth trying out. I'm anxious to see just how much quality is taken out of the equation when everyone dining is on the plan. How many more items will disappear? How much fat will suddenly appear on my steaks? How the salads will shrink in size? How many of the creative desserts will disappear in favor of apple pie, chocolate cake and cheesecake? In advance, I picked up menus from all the places I'll be dining at this fall so look for a compare and contrast when the time comes. Anyone think I'm being too critical? (that's rhetorical, btw) Anyone want to argue how great this is for guests?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip You know me... the DVC'er Disney apologist who looks at everything through rose colored glasses. I think the Disney Dining plan is the dumbest idea I've EVER seen from WDW. As I mentioned in a prior thread, change it to be like the Disney Dining Experience offered to Annual Passholders. You pay a charge (currently $75?) to receive a 20% discount on all food and drink. Since it is just a discount it avoids the mentality of everyone wanting to round up the family and take them to California Grill for their freebie. Another option would be to NOT have it available at any of the Deluxe hotel restaurants or the "Signature Restaurants". Dining at Disney restaurants has been an integral part of our Disney experience. We haven't eaten off of Disney property in the last 15 years. I'm afraid that may change if Disney doesn't get rid of this ill-conceived plan. No, I won't be buying the Disney Dining Plan. We are annual passholders, and I will stick with the Disney Dining Experience. One, it covers booze!! ;-) Two, it does not degrade the dining experience like the Disney Dining Plan does.
Originally Posted By Crazy4WDW I can't say I disagree with any of your statements. Disney's overall product quality, whether it be food, merchandising, etc. has decreased significantly in the past 10 or so years. Sadly, it seems to be a sign of the times.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You know me... the DVC'er Disney apologist who looks at everything through rose colored glasses. I think the Disney Dining plan is the dumbest idea I've EVER seen from WDW.>> Trippy, I think you've gotten smarter in my year-plus away from LP.com <<As I mentioned in a prior thread, change it to be like the Disney Dining Experience offered to Annual Passholders. You pay a charge (currently $75?) to receive a 20% discount on all food and drink. Since it is just a discount it avoids the mentality of everyone wanting to round up the family and take them to California Grill for their freebie. Another option would be to NOT have it available at any of the Deluxe hotel restaurants or the "Signature Restaurants". >> But Disney wants the people to use the plan at the signature restaurants because they count as two meals. You think the Mouse isn't making a fortune when a family of six uses the plan at the Cal Grill and they all get the filet? <<Dining at Disney restaurants has been an integral part of our Disney experience. We haven't eaten off of Disney property in the last 15 years. I'm afraid that may change if Disney doesn't get rid of this ill-conceived plan.>> Trippy, it really isn't that scary off-property. And once you start dining in surrounding areas, you might not want to go back to Disney Dining magic! FWIW, I also ate at Mythos at IoA on this trip, and when you see the menu you really begin to realize how much Disney is gouging you. The food is incredible, first off. Higher quality BY FAR than anything at the MK and comparable with the best locations at Epcot. Not one item on the menu was over $18. NOT ONE! Most were in the $9-14 range. They all were top quality. They put bread on the table and don't count how many pieces you consume. The desserts are all mini-sized gourmet for $1.75 each (yes, you read that right). If anyone has dined at Season's 52, a high end Darden concept, they do desserts the same way. As an APer, you get 15% off all the time, no restrictions. My steak spinich salad for lunch was $10.15 and had HIGH quality steak (about 6-7 oz). What would that cost at WDW? $16.99 minimum, likely, and not of the same quality. <<No, I won't be buying the Disney Dining Plan. We are annual passholders, and I will stick with the Disney Dining Experience. One, it covers booze!! ;-) Two, it does not degrade the dining experience like the Disney Dining Plan does.>> I have the DDE as well. I've had it since 1995 when it was $25 for two cards for Fla residents only. It was a real value then. I'm trying the Dining Plan only because it's free and only as a test.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney's overall product quality, whether it be food, merchandising, etc. has decreased significantly in the past 10 or so years. Sadly, it seems to be a sign of the times.>> No, it's more a sign of bad management at the exceutive levels. That's why they're cutting the staff back at the studios and only want to out eight films out a year. Gee, maybe if you hadn't off degraded 'the brand' so much since the mid-90s you wouldn't be in the mess you're in.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Well..... (looks left, then right) .... I'm with you fellers ! This will destroy World Showcase Dining if things do not change. It has already dstroyed Cinderella's Royal Table.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom What is going to happen is that guests are going to figure out that its cheaper and you can have better quality food either; 1) off property, 2) pack it yourself. One of the thrills of vacationing at WDW was eating meals at EPCOT. With that out of the picture it certainly decreases the charm of the World Showcase. I for one am not to worried about the "meal" plan. Guests will now be eating more frequently off property. Guests will pack energy bars, water and such into the parks. I look at this as an opportunity for the off the beaten path resturaunts in some of the Downtown Disney Hotels to shine.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hmmm, I'm undecided here folks. For at least the last 10 years one has been able to buy packages where food was included. Also, the deal is not great for everyone. I'm paying $40 per person per day. Looking through Deb's site, it is likely my table service meal will be between $25 and $35 per average, and counter service is only about $7. Therefore, there is a negligable reduction (excluding gratuities). The trade off, we will be eating on property the whole time (we are a captured audience). Because the food is already paid for when I settle my account in advance, statistically I am more likely to splash out on an expensive bottle of wine or a cocktail. For those on a budget, they may have only spent $20 with WDW on food in a day eating snacks and counter service. Now they will spend $40. I don't think this is an excuse for dumbing down. This is the trend ion restaurants now. I dine out about 4 nights a week, and the majority of the higher end restaurants here in Europe are trimming the number of dishes, but changing the menu with greater frequency. This could be linked to this trend. I will agree though that the PS issue is a nightmare and does take the spontanaity out of a trip, and this is a negative of the plan! And as for the Chicken thing, that is definately a downturn. As for the Lounge, everytime I have been to the Japanese pavillion, the Teppanyaki restaurant and Tempura Kiko have been rammed, and the lounge empty. Therefore, I am not surprised about the change. Remember folks, the dining plan is not always free. I am paying for it. And if I am dissatisfied with my meal, I will ask to speak with the manager as if I paid ala cart. I think some of this is hyperbole. However, I do agree, souvenir quality has decreased, and many other things as well. So I am not giving Disney a free pass. All I am saying is let's watch. I will certainly be doing a comparison report after our trip in Nov/Dec.
Originally Posted By leemac <<One of my fave locations for a drink at Epcot, the Matsunoma lounge in Japan is no longer open. >> Spirit don't forget that that entire pavilion isn't operated by Disney (like many at Epcot). It is their choice to opt in the the DDP.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Living in Atlanta I am spoiled. We have an incredible assortment of eateries here for every price range. I have NEVER found Disney to be on par with the mediocre food chains let alone some of the stand alone resturaunts. I can't think of a single food item on any menu at Disney that you can get in Atlanta better and cheaper. Furthermore, I am currently on vacation in Quebec City and I can assure you the food here IS incredible. Its not cheap and the taxes are high ( 15% ) but hey so is Orlando. Disney is going to have no choice but to improve the quality of their food. The High School quality food just isn't going to cut it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "Disney is going to have no choice but to improve the quality of their food. The High School quality food just isn't going to cut it." Funny, where do you eat Tom. I would never count the table services in this. Maybe we spend too much time in tourist areas when we go to the states, but overall, I find the price of food to very reasonable at WDW and DL compared to European restaurants. As for the food in Quibec, it is indeed wonderful. If you think they have high tax, try our 17.5%.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom $40 a day per person for meals is steep especially when in the states.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Funny, where do you eat Tom. I would never count the table services in this.>> If someone was to ask me the questions, where have you had some of the most incredible meals in your life. I can assure you that none of them have been at WDW. I think its the acid rain in New England. Our vegtables just have more flavor. Our tomatoes, corn and other vegtables have a lot more flavor than what is coming out of California.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Really, most of our vacations we have often budgeted $100 a day for food for 2 people. And often met that budget. Maybe we have expensive taste.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "If someone was to ask me the questions, where have you had some of the most incredible meals in your life. I can assure you that none of them have been at WDW." Again, that surprises me as I can hoenstly say my 3rd and 4th fav dining experiences have been V&A's and the California Grill. 1 being the Napa Rose in DL, and 2 being the California Grill in DLP.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I have never eaten at V&A or the Cali Grill. Last night I had Fondue in a cafe attached to Frontenac. The meal started with cheese Fondue, followed by Fondue Chinois ( beef, onion broth ). You had a choice of what meat. We had beef. For dessert we had chocolate Fondue with fruit. The cafe had live music. You haven't lived till you've heard Peter, Paul and Mary songs sung in French <laugh>. We also had two glasses of wine. All this, with good service for 49.00 Canadian. Thats before taxes. At a different cafe two nights before I had meat pie ( more like beef Wellington ), mashed potatos, vegtables, a glass of wine, salad and a slice of maple syrup pie all for $18.95 Canadian <before tax>. Breakfast here at the Clarendon Hotel is $10.95 Canadian and all you can eat; bacon, sausages, eggs, crepes, assorted cheeses, assorted fruits, assorted muffins, pain o'chocolate, crousants, smoked salmon pate, assorted cereals, juices and coffee. Well breads, jellys and jams and maple syrup . I don't need to mention that its REAL maple syrup do I?
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys To sum up my feelings on the matter: I used to expect the best from Disney, now I just hope for the best.
Originally Posted By disneydad109 WhenI was an undergrad almost 40 yrs ago (EEK, it can't be that many years since the 60's) I had to take one business course and if I can remember correctly I think WDW could be doing some kind of profit thing. If you don't like WDW ,vote with your feet. I will keep going and report back how things are doing once the crowds are gone. Don't ley anyone know that I will be your spy.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Everytime Disney does this, it makes the non-Disney and off property restaurants look better and better.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey In the past few years, I've never had a bad experience with the food at WDW. I think it's actually pretty good, and I come from a town where almost all the food is top notch. In my opinion, the food at WDW is a heck of a lot better than it used to be in the 80s.
