Originally Posted By Doobie This topic is for discussion of the August 15 article: Mission: Space - New Horizons? at <a href="News-ID507370.asp" target="_blank">http://LaughingPlace.com/News-ID507370.asp</a>.
Originally Posted By treelo Mission: Space sounds just amazing! But I disagree with the statement made about guests not wanting "audio-animatronic attractions." Both Pirates and the Haunted Mansion have stood the test of time, and I believe that Spaceship Earth is one of the neatest attractions I've seen. Epcot's original attractions were extraordinarily ambitious. Remember the carousel theatre opening of Journey into imagination? How cool was that? Or the complexity of the Universe of Energy as the theatre seats become trams. Even the omni-max type films and settings used in the old Horizons attraction. These things filled me with awe, which I've always preferred over a quick thrill. Disney is straying further and further from the true family oriented attractions it once had. Everything now is either a thrill ride or a "kiddie" ride. I realize that Mission: Space is indeed a thrill ride, but it sounds like Disney may have finally blurred the line again between what is a thrill ride and what is a thrilling attraction. And that is exciting. I hope we see a resurgence of ambition from Disney. I think the true test will come when TOT opens at DCA next Spring. Will it top Florida, or will it be a much inferior sequel? Expectaions are, unfortunately, very low. I hope they prove us wrong. Okay, I'm done rambling...
Originally Posted By covnut But those attractions are so great because of their history. I am not saying I disagree with you though. I still think it is possible for AAs to make a great attraction. The only problem is AA's don't really 'awe' people any more. And BTW, THOSE WERE AMAZING PICTURES! Just so beautiful! Covnut
Originally Posted By irishfan Great article, and the pictures were excellent, caught the pavillion in ways I had not seen before...really unique! Thanks.
Originally Posted By Duncan32 Hay gang, Opening day went GREAT WONDERFUL OUT OF THIS WORLD stand by wait time was 60min and 40min for single riders. I got to play Greeter there for an hour it was a lot of fun. I was in charge of greeting our new Astronuts. I helped a lot in there choosing where or not to ride. The Guest were very happy I was there to tell them about it. we had a lot of fun talking and joking about the G Forces. I think we are going to have a lot of fun with this one
Originally Posted By CMM1 Time will tell if Mission:Space is embraced as a thrill ride or simply a unique ride experience - it certainly is innovative and seems like Disney is taking chances again in terms of creativity (like they did with the freefall concept in ToT). As far as AA's go - AA attractions are Disney. Nobody else, except Universal, has even attempted to do the things Disney has done over the years with POTC, HM, Star Tours, Splash Mt, Jungle Cruise, Alien Encounter, CoP, Timekeeper, even Big Thunder Mt. One hopes that they would keep part of this tradition alive with maybe a new attraction every 6-7 years or so
Originally Posted By irishfan Well, here's hoping CMM1, looks as if the next AA we'll see will be at Expedition Everest, which I cant wait for!!!
Originally Posted By Kingtriton77 Epcot hasn't been the same since Disney removed Horizons, World of Motion and the original Imagination ride. What was Disney thinking when they made this horrible move? Epcot has lost its magic and charm. The old Epcot was 100 times better. No wonder fewer people are returning to this park. Mission Space leaves out small children the senior citizens. If you don't feel dizzy after this ride, the small cramped spaces will get to you. Hey, wasn't the reason why Walt built Disneyland was so the entire family can have fun together? Here's my solution: Fist, build more dark animatronics Disney magic dark rides. Build a Horizons II ride. Make rides where you can take the entire family on. Also, add more dark rides to the World showcase countries. Malestrom is perfect, but why do the other countries have nothing (but Mexico)? There are too many movies (Disney likes movies because they're cheap). I agree that Epcot needs a new parade. Everyone I talk to agrees that removing Horizons, and World of Motion was a big mistake. I sure do miss Horizons.
Originally Posted By Wolfjones EPCOT may hav an attendance problem, but as far as I can see, park is crucial when it comes to attracting visitors from outside the U.S. I have talked to quite a number of people in Germany, and every single one agreed that he/she would never fly all the way to Florida if there was no EPCOT. Wolfjones, Germany
Originally Posted By leemac <<But I disagree with the statement made about guests not wanting "audio-animatronic attractions." Both Pirates and the Haunted Mansion have stood the test of time, and I believe that Spaceship Earth is one of the neatest attractions I've seen. >> Hi Treelo This has always been one of the hottest topic on the LP boards. The problem with AA rides and shows is that they just don't hook guests the same way anymore. Horizons was always one of the quietest pavilions at any time of the day as guests just did not enjoy it. M:S and TT will always be more popular with the average guest. It is only the die-hard Disney fans who would suggest otherwise. There will always be a future for AAs, but I just don't see another completely AA attraction opening up outside the Magic Kingdom any time soon. Expedition:Everest is likely to only have one, albeit one of the largest ever built.
Originally Posted By rcheesit I first visited WDW within months of its opening. The food was great and resonably priced and the magic was hard to put into words. I've been a regular visitor ever since. Lately what I see is more than disturbing. Money was spent to build hotels instead of to keep the parks alive and fresh. Everything now just reeks of pulling every last dollar out of the visitors wallet. My new wife (on our honeymoon, which ended on that fateful 9/11 day) would joke as we drove from park to park, "mister...(in our best mouse voice), your not taking any money home with you are you?" It's really not a joke, however. I was there last May with my brother and his daughter. I've never seen WDW employees less friendly and less interested in making things magic. I bought an annual pass (at the suggestion of a hotel worker) as my wifeand I will be taking a second honeymoon at WDW this november. I was told the Annual Pass discount would save me 40% on hotel rates. Now I find that those discounts are probably not going to be offered anymore. We may cancel the reservations we made at the CB resort, (we made them, "just in case") and visit WDW for a few days from a local hotel, Universal and the beaches. This was unthinkable for me several years ago. I would have spent the majority of my time in a Disney hotel for the magic alone. In my over 12 trips to Disney I have spent at least $2000.00 per trip, and lately more. In May, for the first time ever, I found my self depressed, witnessing what was really a shell of what used to be, created by the obvious greed of todays management. Walt would roll over in his grave. I called Central Reservations to make my CB "just in case" reservations and got some kind of WDW travel host. I was astounded when she quoted me a good $30.00 per night more that I knew the CB moderate resort to be. Then tacked on 60 or 70 dollar travel insurance which I was not plainly told I did not need to have. Then they informed me of the cost to ME if I cancelled. I finally asked her what was going on and asked for specifics and she curtly stated that maybe I would rather talk to Central Reservation, where I eventually booked the rooms at the normal off season rated, with no insurance, one nights deposit (instead of being charged all up front, 6 months away from our arrival date, and very lenient cancellation rules, which I will now probably take adavantage of. I understand from Web sights that soon disney will eliminate "room only" bookings and Central Reservations in favor of the what I originally got. Packages will be the only way to book. Well, as a long time Disneyite, the $5.00 beers, the $25.00 tee shirts, the $250.00 per night rooms, the $20.00 per peson meals, the $260.00 tickets (and all of this rises faithfully every year - beyond the normal cost of living)has finally turned me off. And believe me, that was an arduous task that only Eisner could accomplish. My boss and his wife rode Mission Space and were terribly nausiated, to the point of praying that it would end before they threw up. I want Horizons back..and Figment, the the world of Travel and Walter Cronkite on Spaceship earth. I want reasonably good food at a fair price. I want Mickeys hand out of my wallet. Mickey probably is sickened by it, too. Hey Eisner...you want to do the airline trick of high priced seats for fewer butts and less overhead? Give the reighs over to someone who loves Disney World and understands the magical formula before it's too late. If you turned me off you must have turned off the less faithfull. Each park needs a few new E ticket rides and the employees need to become part of the act again. Thanks for listening.
Originally Posted By Epcot82Guy rcheesit, you raise a lot of points people make often. If you have not done so already, I would highly suggest writing a letter or two to a manager of guest relations. Make sure to include specific examples, and specific prices (especially those you used to pay and will not any more). This seems to be the only glimmer of hope to getting through to the management. Also, if you had friends considering coming to the resort and your experiences have changed their minds, have them write in as well. The more people that complain and stop coming, the more management will HAVE to change.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct << I sure do miss Horizons.>>> This attraction was right up there with Pirates and Haunted Mansion. A real shame to loose it. BIG mistake. I would be curious to learn the attendance of the ride. How many riders did it get?
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct << but as far as I can see, park is crucial when it comes to attracting visitors from outside the U.S. I have talked to quite a number of people in Germany, and every single one agreed that he/she would never fly all the way to Florida if there was no EPCOT>>> WOW ... interesting perspective. I would be curious to learn more about the "why" behind their feelings.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<In May, for the first time ever, I found my self depressed, witnessing what was really a shell of what used to be, created by the obvious greed of todays management. Walt would roll over in his grave.>>> I have heard this from other people as well. Great insights rcheesit. I would be very upset if a "room only" discount was no more. What do they do with Conventions? These people just need a room and work their shows. How would Disney handle that?
Originally Posted By leemac <<How many riders did it get?>> Very few, which is why it has become confind to the history books. It had terrible guest satisfaction ratings. I guess everyone has their own favourite, but I sure was glad to see the back of Horizons. It was no wonder they had to delay the opening by a year. It did not even seem to fit into FW for my liking, as it seems like a weird version of Carrousel of Progress. On a separate note, rcheesit, I've no idea where you got the idea that there will be no more resort discounts for APers, but that is just not the case. Virtually every issue of Mickey Monitor has good room discounts. Lindsay and I stayed at the Animal Kingdom Lodge last year and paid less than $200 a night for a deluxe savannah view room. You should call the AP passholder line for discount rates. CR have too many discount codes to know them all by heart (several hundred at any given time for conventions, groups and individuals). Call the AP line for further info. If I remember rightly, the Polynesian is currently on offer from the August newsletter. I must admit I'm not sure how often the moderate resorts come up on there any more, but the AP line can update you.
Originally Posted By Epcot82Guy <<How many riders did it get?>> leemac is correct. It did have very low ridership, but that is only part of the story. When Eisner and Co. decided to start "thrilling up" Epcot, they looked at attendance. WoM had the lowest attendance and very high maintenance costs (due to technology and AA numbers). So, it was the first to go, and GM was willing to help redesign, so that kept it going faster. Even before TT opened, a new attraction was in the works, but no one knew where it was going. About 1996, Horizons underwent an inspection, and serious flaws were found in the building. This posed a challenge: almost completely reinforce the structure, causing major scene changes, gut the building, rebuild parts of it, and update the attraction (a different Horizons or new attraction), or demolish and begin again. TT had posed SERIOUS challenges in fitting the attraction in WoM's space (one reason the attraction may feel short-although Pressler and Eisner certainly would have chopped it down even if more show space had been added). So, the combination of Horizon's low ridership/following, the new "direction" for "Future" World, and the problems with the update of WoM gave rise to the new M:S building. Personally, I agree that AA's should make a comeback. I think Splash Mtn. is a great example of how AA rides can successfully be incorporated into a thrill ride. I personally would love to see a version of Horizons open where Innoventions West is, built in such a way where scenes could be revamped to show changes in technology, and highlight the main areas of FW (i.e. conservation, agriculture, imaging, transportation, exploration, medicine, energy, communication, etc.). But guess that will have to stay in the EPCOT of my mind.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <I personally would love to see a version of Horizons open where Innoventions West is> I'd like to see it next to Space Mountain, either on the same land occupied by Tomorrowland Speedway, or on the other side of the railroad tracks behind the Speedway. Or maybe even as a replacement (or addition) to Carrosel of Progress.
Originally Posted By BrigmanMT 2 What a wonderful article. Especially for a westcoaster who didn't get to experience the history, of the company's first non Magic Kingdom park, first hand.
