Originally Posted By mawnck >>I'm so fed up with the hypocrisy that wants non-believers to walk on eggshells when they share what they think.<< It's also hypocrisy to resort to the "walking on eggshells" defense when people have the temerity to disagree with you. You don't need to walk on eggshells unless you really want to. I sure don't see it done around here much. >>Imagine if I'd started a thread that said "Fortunate to be a Person Without Faith" and then told the story of Atheists donating to Haiti. Would everyone just say "Good for you!" and keep quiet about the non-believer angle?<< It's a DISCUSSION forum. If you bring it up, you should expect other people to discuss it. >>It would have been more impressive if you coordinated your efforts with a Muslim church. << LDS and Assembly of God?? Trust me on this one ... that's mighty damn impressive. In fact, I'm kind of amazed.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***LDS and Assembly of God?? Trust me on this one ... that's mighty damn impressive. In fact, I'm kind of amazed.*** And isn't that just pathetic? Perhaps they'd work together all the better if one wasn't telling its' people the other is misguided and wrong (and you can plug practically any 2 religions into "one" and "the other").
Originally Posted By dshyates Just goes to show that the breadth of heart is greater than the depth of faith.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It's a DISCUSSION forum. If you bring it up, you should expect other people to discuss it.<< Of course you should. Just like you should expect people to discuss it when Donny brings it up as he did here. But that wasn't the response, was it. It was, "Oh great, more people going after religion." Donny brought up religion, people responded. Imagine that. >>It's also hypocrisy to resort to the "walking on eggshells" defense when people have the temerity to disagree with you.<< That's a straw man. No one has said, "Don't disagree with me." I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I think you know that. It's perfectly reasonable to comment on the tone and approach many people take towards religious disbelief and their hypocrisy that privileges religious belief over disbelief, while claiming to be fair-minded on the issue. If you'd like to make a case for why it's ok to have that hypocrisy or make the case for why it exists, let's hear it. But let's not attack the straw man of "You think people can't disagree with you!" >>You don't need to walk on eggshells unless you really want to. I sure don't see it done around here much.<< Again, that's not the point. The point is the hypocrisy we've just witnessed of people rolling their eyes when someone wants to discuss Donny's use of religion on a DISCUSSION forum when many of those same people would take issue with a non-believer who did the same thing. Frequently in our culture the attitude is one along the lines of: People who preach religion or talk about their faith are just expressing their beliefs, speaking truth to power, etc., etc. People who preach disbelief are insensitive, rubbing your nose in it, or deliberately confrontational. Again, if you'd like to disagree with my assessment and tell me why, I'm all ears.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "LDS and Assembly of God?? Trust me on this one ... that's mighty damn impressive. In fact, I'm kind of amazed." I'm amazed that white people could come together with white people and tackle this difficult issue.
Originally Posted By velo There are a lot of people helping Haiti, which is wonderful. Our local High School students are raising money as well. Which, I guess makes me blessed to be the mother of High Schoolers (well, some of the time anyway, lol). I'm sorry but I felt the title was a bit "baiting" as well. The OP is getting the types of reaction that he hoped for.
Originally Posted By quincytoo >>>>I'm sorry but I felt the title was a bit "baiting" as well. The OP is getting the types of reaction that he hoped for.<<< I thought so too,also I don't know anyone who hasn't helped Haiti out one way or another. I had a Morman ex friend who told me that the Tsumani was gods way of wiping out the hearthens, her elder (priest, minister, whatever they call the cult leader) at church had preached this at a service...... Wonder what he said of the earthquake?? I can't ask her as I dropped her as a friend right after the first horrible statement
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But that wasn't the response, was it. It was, "Oh great, more people going after religion."<< I've read this whole topic three times, and I just don't see where you're getting this from. My point, and I think SPPH's point, was that the going after religion is getting a bit out of hand when a very innocuous post like #1 - which I read as a celebration of disparate faiths working together - gets immediately turned into a negative in post 2 - simply because there were churches involved! Post 9 was the one that kicked up the real trouble, and it got condemned by pretty much everybody, me included (in post 10 - and yes, I kept it short). I do not, however, see how the title of this topic is hurting anybody. And I certainly don't see why you would say >>Instead we get "Blessed to be a Person of Faith" in World Events, then people wonder why non-believers make comments? Seriously?<< Who was wondering any such thing? >>Is there anyway or anything a non-believer can do that expresses their disbelief that won't piss people off?<< ... the obvious answer is "of course not." There's not much that you can say about **anything** that won't piss people off, especially in WE. And I'm surprised to hear you calling for same. At least that's how I took it. If I misunderstood, please set me straight. I *do* think that in WE in particular, there is genuine animosity toward anyone who professes the Christian faith, or credits it with anything positive. In other words, there's not anything a *believer* can say or do that doesn't piss the *non-believers* off. See again, post 2. It's not that I don't understand where this is coming from ... I'm definitely embarrassed by much of what passes for Christianity these days. That doesn't mean I'm going to abandon it, or that I'm going to stop defending it. I'm not a fan of the LDS, Southern Baptists or Assemblies of God. All three have conservative leanings that they express in ways I find disturbing, and occasionally outright reprehensible (see: Prop 8). But I also understand that the impulse to do good works arises directly out of their faiths - or is supposed to - and I sure don't want to discourage them when they get it right. Setting aside the good work they were doing for a moment, those were three churches that are known for their intolerance and dislike of *each other* coming together in a common cause. This kind of thing is exactly what we need for such religious groups to *stop* being hypocrites and truly live up to their stated creeds. If donnyaz feels blessed to be a person of faith and wants to say so in community or WE or anywhere else, let him. He's not saying or implying anything about you or your beliefs. If you think he is, you may be jumping to conclusions based on unrelated discussions from the past. THAT'S what I think you need to be cautious of, as do we all.
Originally Posted By donnyaz quincytoo I have been Mormon all my life and have herd some odd stuff from Bishops but nothing like your saying your friend herd.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I sense a tone of defensiveness just below the surface - "see how good my church is? how benevolent we are? I'm proud of my church and I'm not embarrassed to be a identified with them and I want everyone to know it. See? We donated to the poor!" Any you know what? It's good that mormons are feeling defensive these days - it means they've got a conscience deep down in there somewhere.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I'm not offended by anything in this thread but I always found it funny how people have pride in things like religion and race. I am not proud or ashamed of what other atheists, Hispanics or Hispanic atheists do. Their actions really shouldn't reflect on me as an individual. There is a fallacy called guilt by association. I think innocence by association is also a fallacy. Chris Rock has a great routine on the OJ verdict. He says, “Yeah, we won, we won, we won.’ What the f* did we win? Every day I look in the mailbox for my O.J. prize. Nothing.” So be proud of the person who looks like you who donated. But also be proud of the Muslims who donated, the atheists who donated, the blacks who donated, and everyone else who donated. Be proud of the people who chose not to tackle this particular issue, but volunteer or donate to other worthy causes. Be proud of those who could not donate but otherwise have a love in their heart for the world. It's all good to me.
Originally Posted By barboy ///The title comes off as a bit exclusive, as if people of faith are the only ones privy to the "blessings" of doing the right thing./// No, it doesn't--- the title implies no such such thing.........your inherent negative bias of faith/spirituality/religion shows up once again.
Originally Posted By dshyates " Blessed to be a person of faith." So!?! Blessed be anyone who helped in the Haitian relief effort!?! Even myself, who is an agnostic who helped in several different relief efforts? And as an agnostic, who would be the blesser?
Originally Posted By barboy Wow! Even when LDS does something noble it is met with hostility and scorn......looks like too many are hung over from prop 8. But I understand because police do awesome deeds daily and yet I still hold on to my deep resentment caused by previous disturbing episodes with them.
Originally Posted By pecos bill A good many Secularists have also made wonderful gestures of goodwill toward Haiti, but feel no need to trumpet it in World Events, let alone bless themselves in the process. I am glad that you feel good and proud about what you and your group did, but if that is your idea of being blessed, then this Atheist is just as blessed as you!
Originally Posted By dshyates "Wow! Even when LDS does something noble it is met with hostility and scorn......" Self-righteousness is often met with scorn. That is NOT to say that DonnyAZ actions were self-righteous. His and his fellow contributers were needed and appreciated. Just his prideful posting about them was self-righteous. As was his assertion that "Blessed to be a person of faith." But then again, would a non-believer need, want, or care that they were not blessed for their charitable acts by the diety of the OP?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I am glad that you feel good and proud about what you and your group did, but if that is your idea of being blessed, then this Atheist is just as blessed as you! << Careful there - because some of us believe you are. ;-)
Originally Posted By donnyaz when I posted "Blessed to be a person of faith" I just ment that I get to see amazing things thanks to my relationship with my church.I have been in the military and Fire department and nothing campares to see what I have seen done by people of faith.Sorry but it is true
