Originally Posted By dshyates play favorites to the mouse? There is no doubt that Orlando owes a lot to the WDC. That being said, Blackstone, which on a global economic field is on par with the WDC, now owns Busch Entertainment (Sea World, Busch Gardens and Legoland which is now coming into the Cent. FL theme park demo), and a 50% interest in Universal Resort Orlando. Can the city of Orlando continue to play favorites to the declining WDW empire now that Blackstone is seriously playing ball in the area? Would the city of Orlando be willing to partner with a monorail/PRT system that connects Sea World (Blackstone owned) with Universal (50% Blackstown owned) if there was a stop at the Convention Center (the second largest in the USA)? Combine that with the Rosen Group that owns 14 properties along the I-Drive corridor. I believe that The Rosen Group would side with Universal in a "turf" war as opposed to WDW given the success of TWWOHP as opposed to a plethora of Princess M&Gs and more hispanic additions to Epcot. Don't get me wrong, more Latina based additions like the new Cantina at the Mexican Catina and La Casa de Tequila, the place that took over the DtD McDonalds, Presidio 365 and what not. There is no doubt that the latin/ South AM demo is vital to the tour group business of the Orlando market. But they seem to enjoy Universal as much as Disney, and i am not sure that Spain pavilion in Epcot is goona be the game changer Anywho, the question is Blackstone VS. today's WDW. Where is the big money?
Originally Posted By brotherdave Blackstone is a huge company, no doubt. But what average American (or for that matter, any tourist) know who they are? Yes, they're aware of Universal, Busch Gardens, and Sea World. But let's face it, where do most Orlando visitors go?? Disney, of course. Yes, the Blackstone owned parks have taken a small dent out of the Mouse, but most people go to Orlando not to visit their parks, but Disney. Disney's brand is one of the most powerful in the world - instantly recognizable. Has the some of the luster been lost on the Mouse? Sure. The addition of Harry Potter to IOA and Universal has been an enormous plus for them. Yet, if you asked most people WHERE the new Harry Potter "theme park" is, they'll just say Orlando or Florida. Many would even say it's at Disney World. Most have NEVER heard of Islands of Adventure or even realize that Harry Potter is just another land in that park. (Strange and poor marketing strategies on Universal's part, imho. They should have marketed Harry Potter as part of IOA from the beginning, but that's another story.) Yes, many people visit Universal, Sea World, and Busch Gardens, but let's face it, the Mouse IS the main draw to Orlando and will be for many years to come. Universal can only hope to remain "2nd" and will continue to ride on Mickey's coat-tails for the foreseeable future. True, they have delivered a Grand Slam Home Run with WWoHP, but they still are the #2 tourist attraction in Orlando. Disney is the "birthday cake", where the other parks are the "ice cream". They are nice to have if you have the time and money, but are expendable if you don't. Thus, the Mouse still wields the most power in O-Town and will continue to for the foreseeable future.
Originally Posted By -em >>Disney is the "birthday cake", where the other parks are the "ice cream". They are nice to have if you have the time and money, but are expendable if you don't. Thus, the Mouse still wields the most power in O-Town and will continue to for the foreseeable future.<< I agree with you on this but I also think it's time for some tough(er) competition in Orlando and I think Blackstone is in a great position to do that. Yes WDW unless it seriously deconstructs will always be the #1 attraction in Central Florida. But it doesn't mean it has to be the only one in the ring. I think a few strategic alliances, combined marketing, an ever evolving product and eye to value you've got a good backing...
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Can the city of Orlando continue to play favorites to the declining WDW empire now that Blackstone is seriously playing ball in the area?>> There's way too much fanboi in your question. It doesn't matter that TWWOHP is a critical success, or that WDW is lagging behind in their offerings. All that really matters is the tourism numbers. Who is bringing in all the tourists to Orlando? Disney... by a wide margin. I don't even know if Blackstone or whoever would even be interested in a "turf war." They may very well be content to be #2. Why bite the hand that is essentially helping to feed you in the first place?
Originally Posted By dshyates Yeah, to the General Population and the Orlando business community Disney is still the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. But Disney has done a lot to piss off the political structure here, and now Blackstone has a huge monitary footprint in the area. Only Darden Restaurants and NASA can compare. What I am wondering is does Blackstone have enough to entice the City of Orlando to cross the mouse? Specifically, can they (Blackstone) get the City of Orlando to partner with them and say Rosen Resorts to build something like a PRT/Monorail in the I-Drive attractions district? The line would service Universal, all the Rosen Resorts, the Orlando Convention Center and Sea World. If The City of Orlando played ball with Blackstone in such a way it would result in a very angry rodent down the road. My question is does Blackstone have enough of a presance to convince the City Of Orlando to cross the mouse?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Would the city of Orlando be willing to partner with a monorail/PRT system that connects Sea World (Blackstone owned) with Universal (50% Blackstown owned) if there was a stop at the Convention Center (the second largest in the USA)?<< I am not sure if this is THE question in the OP, but I'll bite. No. If, however, that monorail/PRT/mag lev/people mover/transit system also connected to WDW, it is possible. As I recall, there were plans many years ago for a system to run straight from the airport to WDW, but it fell apart when Orlando rather sensibly requested additional stops, at some of the places mentioned in the OP. So it seems reasonable that in the scenario described above, they would make a similar request. So... a qualified "it's likely" is my reply, but not on the basis of some contrived rivalry, but rather on a rather sensible approach to getting maximum use from a very expensive project.
Originally Posted By leemac dshyates - you are missing a crucial fact. Blackstone are a private equity firm. They are only in the theme park business for two reasons - it is hugely cash-generative and they believe they can make short term equity gains. Blackstone have no interest in the theme park business themselves - it is solely to make money for their unit holders. PE firms rarely hold on to their investments for more than 5 years. Blackstone bought Merlin Entertainments Group, Sea World Parks & Entertainment and their minority stake in Universal Parks & Resorts to create a package to offload in the future (either as a trade sale or IPO). I doubt that Blackstone will make any substantial capital investment in their portfolio (NBC-Uni control USF) as it will potentially reduce their exit profit. They bought Merlin in summer '05 and Sea World in December '09. I'm sure once they feel that the economy is rebounding and that tourists are returning to their parks they will offload the investment. Blackstone have always been a big player in the industry. They were TimeWarner's partner in Six Flags.
Originally Posted By dshyates The City has already agreed to having the now under construction High Speed Rail, that will run from OIA to Tampa, have a stop at Disney. And Disney is so far out of the loop geographically that linking it to the I-Drive corridor loop wouldn't make any sense. Maybe Disney's self imposed isolationism will bite it in the tail?
Originally Posted By leemac And then you have Universal Parks & Resorts. GE tried to offload the theme park arm but couldn't get any takers. Now they are gradually exiting the entertainment business with their deal to sell 51% of NBC-U to Comcast with an option to buy outright in the future. I can't see Comcast wanting to be in the theme park business despite the fact Michael Eisner's protege Steve Burke is the company's COO.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Blackstone are a private equity firm. They are only in the theme park business for two reasons - it is hugely cash-generative and they believe they can make short term equity gains." I know that historically, Blackstone has not played an active role. But given their recent acquisitions and development in the Orlando area I can see them taking a more active role in in development. I can also see Disney taking comfort in the fact that Blackstone has previously been just an aquisition firm. But Disney has to have noticed that Blackstone now haw a huge monitary interest in developing a more cohesive entertainment district in the I-Drive area. Blackstone would be neglegent to not try and lump Universal and Sea World into a vacation destination.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I can also see Disney taking comfort in the fact that Blackstone has previously been just an aquisition firm.>> No past tense. Always was and always will be. Their funds are not set up for long term holdings. Blackstone will bail as soon as they get the right price. <<Blackstone would be neglegent to not try and lump Universal and Sea World into a vacation destination.>> Geographically they can't. I also believe that they can't do so with their agreement with NBC-U. NBC-U don't participate in the success of the old Busch business and so they would see any partnership with them with caution. Creating a destination would only benefit Blackstone as they are investors in both.
Originally Posted By u k fan As an international guest, unless any new transportation option included the airport it would be of no interest to me wherever else it stopped. If it eliminated the need for a hire car then I would be willing to pay to stay at a hotel that was linked!!!
Originally Posted By dshyates NBC-U was interested in selling off the parks, and it resulted in IOA sitting stagnant for roughly 5 years, but appearently they had a change of heart. As seen in the recent development at Uni. Now that Comcast is entering the picture I imagine that a similar thing will happen when they acquire NBC-U. The question is Blackstone interested in buying the parks when Comcast puts them up for sale? Considering that Blackstone is now the largest theme park operator on the planet, I could see them biting. Blackstone has significantly inceased their Cent. FL holdings in recent years with the acquisition of the Busch Parks and the new Legoland coming. And soon, the high speed rail will be connecting Sea World to Busch Gardens.
Originally Posted By dshyates "As an international guest, unless any new transportation option included the airport it would be of no interest to me wherever else it stopped. If it eliminated the need for a hire car then I would be willing to pay to stay at a hotel that was linked!!!" The high speed rail is already under construction that would link OIA with the south end of I-Drive. Now they need the I-Drive loop that I am talking about.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<The high speed rail is already under construction that would link OIA with the south end of I-Drive. Now they need the I-Drive loop that I am talking about.>>> That certainly would make it a more interesting prospect, but ultimately to be of any real value I think a WDW stop would need to be added as well!!!
Originally Posted By dshyates The High Speed Rail will have a WDW stop. And one at the convention center on I-Drive. If they were to build the I-Drive loop that I am talking about, then all the attractions would be connected along with the airport and the convention center. To me it seems to be a no-brainer. But Disney will fight tooth and nail for the I-Drive loop not be built.
Originally Posted By dshyates This is what I am talking about: <a href="http://www.sunrail.com/idrivecirculator.asp" target="_blank">http://www.sunrail.com/idrivec...ator.asp</a> Disney is dead set against it. My question is could pressure from Blackstone and Rosen Resorts actually make it happen.
Originally Posted By u k fan Right, ok, somehow I'd missed all of this (though in my defence I haven't had a WDW trip to research in a while). If the main points of O-Town could be linked that would certainly be a very interesting prospect. I can see why WDW would not want competing parks added to the mix. Sadly, they really should have no reason to worry since after all they are WDW and as has been said they are the birthday cake, but with WWoHP getting so much coverage I can see why they would be very reluctant to offer guests an easy way to get there!!!
Originally Posted By MousDad I would be extremely surprised, given the 2010 Potter shift, if the Mouse is not currently running second to the combined competition already. Whether or not it's 1 holding company or 3 different companies shouldn't really matter, I think. If they're losing, they're losing.
Originally Posted By NoChesterHester IOA doesn't have the capacity that MK does. For IOA to take the lead Disney's attendance would have to take a big drop.
