Originally Posted By bartholomewneff Hey bean, So I know that the AA's and retheming of Golden State has been put off till P2, but are they still going to get rid of the Condor Flats area and make that area more of a Northern Cal forrest? Perhaps paint the Soarin' building green, retheme some of the buildings?
Originally Posted By bean The idea of adding a more specific timeline to condor flats as well as making it a connection to grizzley peake is still very much in the plans. Phase one is still being finalized and once that is done then phase two will be looked into. it still a bit too soon to know what will happen to the area. DCA's existing lands are all being considered for another "E" ticket in the near future. one or two for the grizlley condor flats area and another major one for the Pier area as well as another one for HPB
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<you are correct, I should had not used ClONE because its suppose to have a new movie the ride system though would be the same and its theming would be a bit diferent>> Thanks for the info, bean. Now I've been hearing this rumor for a year or two now. Any idea when and if work will start on it? I'm assuming that they'll wait until the 25th Anniversary celebrations are over and the Monsters, Inc. E-ticket opens.
Originally Posted By bean Its all up to OLC, they just did some big investments with TOT and spirit sooner than they had hoped for
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan True. Current rumors point to a 2010/2011 opening, which would be quite plausible actually. I've always wanted to see the Soarin' technology utilized with a richer coat of theming and immersion, so I really hope this goes through. Though I've also been hearing rumors of the OLC wanting to add another rollercoaster in place of Soarin'. Any truth to this rumor at all?
Originally Posted By bean well they have been talks of a rollercoaster, a raft ride, a flume ride OLC really wants to have TDS be the more thrill oriented park of the resort
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Interesting move. Guess they want to attract a new demographic, as the families with young children often flock to TDL. Attracting young adults and teens would be a wise decision.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff TDR Fan said: "interesting move. Guess they want to attract a new demographic, as the families with young children often flock to TDL. Attracting young adults and teens would be a wise decision." Kind of like the "wise" decision by TeamDisney to make DCA the more "Thrill" park of the resort? When everyone went in they kept asking "where are the kids rides?". Thus we got ITTBAB and so on. I'll leave the thrill rides to Universal, Knotts and Magic Mountain...
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan Well, I'm not talking about adding anything ultra intense like 100 ft+ coasters. Just something moderately intense like Splash Mountain or Tower of Terror would be both thrilling and still suitable for most riders.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff Wasn't trying to be sarcastic with you TDR Fan. I was just thinking that Disney and the OLC both aimed for that "Thrill" audience that they expected to get. Granted, OLC provided a better experience, but both missed the boat. From what I hear, OLC's Executives were not happy about adding two new rides so early. TOT and Raging Spirits weren't scheduled to go in till around now or next year. They were put in to keep attendance from sagging further. This year was marked the end of a three year slide in that. It still gets over three million more than DCA, but it wasn't expected that they'd have to put in another infusion of cash so quickly after plunking over 2.2 billion dollars. I've heard it was one of the reasons that OLC had let it be known that a third gate at the park, wouldn't have anything to do with Disney. They've since backtracked a bit, planning another Disney experience in another area of Japan, but any talk of a third gate for TDR has been ceased to happen. I think a lot of what happens over the next five or six years will determine if they find it feasable to even add a third park. If they do, one would hope it would be Disney themed, that would be really weird to have a park in a Disney resort with no connection to Disney. This is not to rag TDS, it's my fav park after the original DL, but it shows that even OLC is human and didn't get what they bargained for in the second gate. I wonder how many of their guest come specifically for TDS? I wonder how much attendance is Japanese versus American and others? Their second gate has achived a mythic status amoung Disney fans around the world. Ironically, the California public are the ones that are so vocal about the disappointment of DCA, the international visitors from Japan and Austrailia, ect. don't seem to complain about it near as much. Irony, huh?
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<It still gets over three million more than DCA>> Just curious. How did you get that estimate, as the only figures that have been released was from TEA/ERA. The figure for TDS has been published as +12 million since it opened back in 2001, and this is generally the number tossed around by reliable sources. <<it wasn't expected that they'd have to put in another infusion of cash so quickly after plunking over 2.2 billion dollars>> TDS cost a lot more than that from what I've read and been told. Over $4 billion is a more realistic figure compared to the modest (relative, anyways) amount released by the OLC.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Post 111 is fascinating. I recall that several posters, including me, were saying that DCA would eventually grow and expand in time. Where were you, bartholomewneff, when the DCA critics were all so vocal about how TDS was the end all end all? You aren't the first to mention that several of TDS' major additions were fast tracked. Perhaps Disney's strategy of building small in Anaheim and expanding later was the best path to take after all.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff Hey TDR Fan, I've got some friend that work for Disney in the know and although they won't/can't tell me alot we did talk about attendance for which my friend has some knowledge. The figure they quoted me, and it's been a few months, but but the figure was around ten million. Somewhere around that number. As for DCA, the figure was below seven million... although I don't remember how much. I do know that DCA, for all its lackings, has posted gains in attendance over the last couple of years. It's not as much as they would like, but they have achieved gains. The new Makeover should bring it up to between 8 and 9 million. Which would be enough for them to get Iger to grant a Phase 2 for the project and begin more serious planning for that third gate we've always dreamed of. As for you, Hans. I don't think Disney did the right thing by building small. I'm not saying they had to build it as big or extravagant as OLC, but they did build it too small. This, with the leasons learned will not happen again. DCA, WDSP and HKDL were all built way too small and any future project will have to take that into account. With 911, it would have been hard for Disney, had they built something like TDS to recover. It would have been like DL Paris all over again, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have built it better and bigger. Maybe not 2.2 billion, but the project should have been at least a billion and it should have had a more cohesive theme. We would have a situation more like DAK than DCA if that would have happened. But that's all in the past now. Let's give Iger a chance. He seems to have learned the lessons of Eisner, so we'll have to wait and see what pops up over the next five to ten years. I'm crossing my fingers. Are you?
Originally Posted By dshyates "Perhaps Disney's strategy of building small in Anaheim and expanding later was the best path to take after all." While TDS may have had some fast tracking it is hardly in the shape DCA is with appealing to the board for a billion dollars that most of which will be for ripping out and replacing while as jonvn has pointed out these lame new guys really aren't adding that much. 2 Cs 2 Es and a mall. Well most of the $1.2 billion is for ripping out replacing and placemaking of existing structures. As jonvn pointed out not many attraction for $1.2 billion.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff it's 700 million, dshyates, just so you know. And of that, close to 400 million is going towards rides. That's nothing to sneeze at. But I get where you're coming from. TDS is great. DCA sucks. Nothing else to say. Sigh.
Originally Posted By TDR_Fan <<The figure they quoted me, and it's been a few months, but but the figure was around ten million. Somewhere around that number.>> That sounds reasonable. I do know for a fact that TDS got over 12 million in its first year, as it was the fastest theme park to reach 10 million guests- which it did in just 10 months.
Originally Posted By dshyates "it's 700 million, dshyates, just so you know. And of that, close to 400 million is going towards rides. That's nothing to sneeze at." What happened to the $1.2 billion? I know about $100 mil for Mermaid, $200 mil for cars, that leaves $50 mil each for tractors and hubcaps. As far as attractions go $400 mil sounds about right. The viewing area for WoC. As the actual WoC show and TSMania have seperate budgets. And carsland. The rest is for placemaking of the Sun Court and Paradise Pier. $700 mil in phase one. The rest in phase 2 which a large part will be MORE placemaking in HPB, and CF and GP. Fixing the Hyperion. And maybe some attractions.
Originally Posted By dshyates "But I get where you're coming from. TDS is great. DCA sucks." I don't know that TDS is great as I have never been there. I have been to DCA. And it seems that even if the wanted to build cheap they could have done it smarter and not be in a situation where so much of what they spent money on just 7 years ago needs bulldozed. It seems extremely wasteful.
Originally Posted By bartholomewneff dshyates, You are correct. The rest would be for Phase 2 if the first goes well. Of course, there will probably be more money if this part makes the crowds enter in mass numbers. Should it be that successful, P2 will be close to the amount of the first phase. Now, as to what will go in there, bean would know more about that than I. But you are close in terms of money in your post, right now we're going to have to see what the remaining money will be spent for since the Philharmagic plans may have been cut out or put on hold. There's a question for bean, does he think they'll come up with another clone or make something original for the park to take the place of Muppets? I don't think they'll be anymore clones for DCA because Lasseter has been frowning on such things. A lot of people seem to complain about Pixar invading the parks, but with some of John's most beloved properties in California Adventure you can bet that the park will get a lot of personal attention from him. This will mean the park will not suffer from bland ideas over the next decade. And even though I don't know what they've got planned, I can tell you that not everything will be Pixar inspired. So bean, want to spill the beans and tell us about that Train ride? Or one of the other proposals for E tickets for DCA's Phase 2?
