Originally Posted By JohnS1 Does anyone recall that in a recent thread about the Bush "spying-without-subpoenas" issue, several of us suggested that just about everything about our lives is no longer private anyway? Well, the lead story on several TV networks today was that your cell-phone records are accessible to anybody who wants to pay the sleazeballs who collect this sort of stuff. Two thoughts: 1) We were right when we suggested that there is no privacy out there any more; and 2) I'm even more convinced than ever that I'm smart to not have a cell phone.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe This John is one of the myriad reasons why I'm still holding out and not getting cell phones even though my 12 year old daughter is putting the heat on. I think what you say is absolutely true and congrats on being a holdout like me. ccj
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA If someone buys my cellphone records, then the adage 'there's a sucker born every minute' comes to mind. There's nothing on my cellphone records that I give a rip about! Spy away!
Originally Posted By FaMulan I'm right there with you, Jim. If they want to hear me talk with my husband, my sister or any other family member and call the Auto club they're welcome to be bored out of their minds.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Or perhaps, given that it's a cell phone, it would be: 'There a sucker born every unlimited minute' HA! HA! HA! Cough! Gasp!
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 I also don't have anything to hide, but I do believe that one should be able to use a cell phone to make a call "secretly." I can imagine a number of contacts -- none of them illicit -- that someone might wish to keep private. Apparently the government doesn't prohibit the collection and dissemination of this information. Do cell service providers have the ability to prevent the information from being released?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut <<Do cell service providers have the ability to prevent the information from being released?>> Technically yes, but they wont until the users start paying a premium. "So Mr Johnson, its $49.99 a month, plus $5 for internet, $3 for unlimited SMS and $39.99 a month for "premium" security. Now that is an option, but we highly recommend it and without it we are not responsible for your information being sold...excuse me, being stolen."
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Apparently the government doesn't prohibit the collection and dissemination of this information. << There's no expectation of privacy in most business relationships. The government is limited by the 4th Amendment (well, it used to be anyway), but corporations can gather and sell whatever information about you that they want. The government is supposed to get a subpoena before requesting things like phone records, but private citizens or corporations are not bound by the 4th Amendment. (There are some limitations - hospitals are not allowed to give a third party your health information, for example) If you're concerned that much about your privacy, you might consider not writing checks, using debit/visa cards, or using grocery store discount cards or COSTCO-style memberships.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <If you're concerned that much about your privacy, you might consider not writing checks, using debit/visa cards, or using grocery store discount cards or COSTCO-style memberships.> You mean.....*snif*.....stop living?
Originally Posted By wonderingalice What these sleazebag companies are doing is illegal and the cell phone companies do not willingly give out the information. There will be no surcharge for 'extra security/privacy,' as that isn't the issue. The sleazebags use "social engineering," i.e., they call the cell companies and are able to pass themselves off as the owner of the phone account. The real issue is two-fold: the public needs to learn not to share passwords or any personal information with people they 'believe' are their friends... And the cell companies need to get tougher in what information their reps need to gleen from customers who call in.
Originally Posted By cstephens If they want to look at my celphone records, then they can see how many times a year I call a number at the Disneyland Resort... /cs
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Really Tom it has come down to that where there is no absolute privacy. Being in insurance there are modicum safeguards but when I started arguing with our kids' dentist' receptionist about her demanding my social number, I even give up the fight on some occasions. It's like locking your door where a determined thief can always get in although here where we live, it's basically inpenetrable (physically) but how about computers, etc?
Originally Posted By ecdc Thanks for that clarification, wonderingalice. I work for a cell phone company while I'm putting myself through school. It gets tiresome how the cell industry is despised as somehow being responsible for idiots yammering away in movie theatres and while they're cruising down the road at 70 mph. People pay $20 for a $300 cell phone and then whine about the contract they signed to get that kind of a deal. Sorry for the grumpiness but I've had to listen to people complain about this all week. The reality? No cell company just hands over your records and takes a check for doing it. The people getting this information are breaking the law and are aggressively prosecuted. I don't mean to act like a commercial, either. The company I work for is a big corporation, and like all other big corporations, their goal is to earn money. But they've been pretty dang good to me and they're far from the spawn of Satan that so many people want to attribute to them.
Originally Posted By JohnS1 Everyone seems to be avoiding my point, here, however, and that was that everyone is up in arms when the government says they should be allowed to monitor a select number of telephone calls and emails between Americans and suspected overseas terrorists, but meanwhile our nationwide calls on cell phones have been subject to tapping all along. Why has it been so late for people to make a fuss about this? And why has not a single news network made the comparison between this lack of privacy and the invasion of privacy which they claim the Bush Adminsitration has foisted upon us? Is it somehow less repellent that MCI can share our phone conversations with others than the federal government? It seems to me that if someone is anti-privacy-invasion - then it must be across the board - no government invasion of privacy, no corporate invasion of privacy, and no private (ie-private eye) invasion of privacy.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Is it somehow less repellent that MCI can share our phone conversations with others than the federal government?> But that's not what's happening.
Originally Posted By cstephens JohnS1 wrote: > but meanwhile our nationwide calls on cell phones have been subject to tapping all along. In your first post, you said they had access to our records, which means, presumably, they see the same thing I would see on my bill every month - what number I called/got calls from and how long each call was. Big difference between that and tapping my phone and listening in on the actual conversations. So which is it? /cs
Originally Posted By ecdc You're correct, cstephens. They're just getting access to phone records - the same thing you can see on your bill or at your provider's website if you log in. When the call was placed, how long, the number dialed, etc.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice That's okay, peeaanuut... I'm just very close to the issue. You'd be amazed at the assumptions made by customers. ecdc, you're very welcome... I've been in the telecommunications industry for almost 30 years and have heard it all... From seniors complaining that the Yellow Pages directory is too heavy to handle (which it is), to evil 'plots' by our installers, to the records revealing thing (land AND wirelines. It gets really nutty sometimes. The whole issue of our personal lives being on display is much scarier than who we're calling. Local government web sites enable you to pinpoint the exact location of someone's home with very minimal information - and it's all free. If the bad guys want to find us, they will.
