Originally Posted By Darkbeer http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/dk050913.htm (cut and paste) >>The biggest loser was Disney's California Adventure as a whole, where estimates have summer-time attendance levels at historic lows. Perhaps the downturn shouldn't be surprising. For a change, DCA offered no significant discounts this summer. Too, while Disneyland boasted about 10 exciting new additions, the only thing DCA got was the parade and later the Turtle Talk With Crush show. As well, the marketing department seems to have forgotten the place exists. Certainly concern must be growing that DCA will never be able to stand on its own—a necessity before Disney will ever invest in a third gate on the strawberry fields.<< Interesting, points that have been made here the last few months, including the marketing department... Interesting to see what David did in regards to DCA... >>Something tells me that, with only 150 shopping days left 'til DCA's 5th birthday, there must be hundreds of thousands of Southern Californians who have never given the park a try. Who are these people? Why haven't they been to DCA yet? I went looking for these Block Party-poopers and, to be honest, they were not difficult to find. Karen is a 40-ish mom with two daughters, one in high school, another in college. She still likes to get to Disneyland about once every year or so (down from about twice a year when her girls were young), but she's never been to DCA. Never even considered it. She's pretty familiar with it, but just doesn't have any interest in it. She's seen the TV commercials and, from across the esplanade, the big roller coaster and other carnival rides. For her, it looks too much like Knott's Berry Farm and Magic Mountain—neither of which appeal to her or her family. “I don't like the circus,†she says firmly. Ironically, the similarity to the competition is intentional. Disney figured that if it could give visitors the Hollywood atmosphere of Universal Studios, the thrill rides of Six Flags, and the woodsy charm of Knott's. What it's given DCA is Knott's-sized, not Disneyland-sized, crowds. Apparently, Disney's audience isn't an exact match of the competition's. Consider Rita, 60. She adores Disneyland. She's been going at least once a year for as long as she can remember. Rita's never paid to visit DCA, but did find herself in the park to attend a community service award presentation in the Hyperion Theater. An hour after the cermony ended, she had hopped over to Disneyland. Why such a hurry to flee DCA? “It's not fun,†Rita explained. “There's really nothing that I like, except they served alcohol. Oh, and Soarin' over California. I also rode Tower of Terror, but it wasn't very terrifying. They had things for teenagers, but I'm not into all these roller coasters. It conjures up the image of Magic Mountain, which I detest. And it's not worth the price. Disneyland has so much to do.†Chuck, 43, has three teenage kids and has also never been to DCA. But then he hasn't been to Disneyland either in the last five years. What's kept his family away? “The cost,†he says. “If it were cheaper I'd go in a heartbeat. It costs $50, $60 to get in, and it's just not worth it.†Perhaps it's Disneyland that has priced DCA out of the market. Although the two parks charge the same amount to get in, it's difficult to argue that they provide the same value. Chuck's favorite activity had been to just walk around. “We wouldn't go to ride rides. We'd mostly go to look at stuff and people watch. But it's so crowded now, that's no fun anymore.†Instead, he finds it much more comfortable (and affordable) to hang out at entertainment-themed malls similar to the Irvine Spectrum. He knows DCA is there, although the only rides he can name are two he can see as he drives by, “the Hollywood Hotel that looks like it's falling apart and the roller coaster with the mouse face on it.†William, in his mid-50s, had been an annual passholder for a few years before being distracted by other interests—about the same time that DCA opened. He also wouldn't mind visiting DCA some time “just to see it.†Yet, from what he's heard about DCA from his friends, nothing about the place really excites him. “It sounds more like an amusement park than a Disneyland, with a Ferris wheel and a lot of big rides instead of visual rides,†William says. “I get the impression there aren't that many rides, and that it's not as much fun [as Disneyland]. Frankly, I haven't heard any ringing endorsements.†So what's a Mouse to do? Keep adding rides until something catches the public's fancy? Change the theme to something more appealing? Steamroll the carnival rides? Bribe dissatisfied customers to stop bad-mouthing the place? Just know that inside DCA something's got to change. I wonder if anyone will notice.<<
Originally Posted By BrigmanMT 2 "They had things for teenagers, but I'm not into all these roller coasters. It conjures up the image of Magic Mountain, which I detest. And it's not worth the price. Disneyland has so much to do.â€" Unfortunately, all the teenagers I know think that those "teenage" attractions at DCA are too weak and kiddie. Disney managed to set itself between two audiences, and lost a large part of them both. It is either too scary looking for teh seniors and youngsters, or not scary enough for those inbetween. Big Thunder and the Matterhorn were designed with nearly everybody in mind, they continue to deliver today. Everest seems to be pushing the borders once again, but it appears to be decently themed and it even has a gigantic motion figure. I wonder if the themeing will make for a significantly different reaction from guests when this attraction debuts. Can Disney get away with huge thrills as long as the attractions are immersive and can tell a story? I think so, and I think that is where DCA fails the most. I wonder if that 60 year old Rita thinks Splash Mountain, with its large intimidating drop of screamin people at the end, is a ride for teenagers. I know a lot of teenagers that love that attraction. Of course my little 8 year old cousins love it too. But they dont like Screamin. "So what's a Mouse to do? Keep adding rides until something catches the public's fancy? Change the theme to something more appealing? Steamroll the carnival rides? Bribe dissatisfied customers to stop bad-mouthing the place?" Strange, he didn't even mention somebody with an issue with the park's theme.
Originally Posted By Blacksheep Uncle maybe if Disney woulda skipped all that special 50th Anniversary stuff over at Disneyland, DCA woulda got more attendance...<rolls eyes> seems like some people can't see the forest for the trees...
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<maybe if Disney woulda skipped all that special 50th Anniversary stuff over at Disneyland, DCA woulda got more attendance...<rolls eyes>>> Well they certainly could have reduced the $270 mil 50th marketing budget by half and given it to DCA.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig ^^^ That would have just been throwing good money after bad. The $270 mil was spent in the right place. It's Disneyland's birthday, not just another lame excuse to try to drum up interest in DCA. DCA has had its fair share of good money wasted on it in lame efforts to try to drum up interest, most notably, $70 million on TOT. That didn't do the trick, did it? All the folks that were curious to see DCA have seen it. There is not much interest in repeat visits. It will take a lot more than half of Disneyland's 5oth anniversary budget to make DCA viable all on its own. A LOT more.
Originally Posted By Westsider Don't forget the shoehorn job of the Electrical Parade, the rush job of Millionaire, and the quicky job of Flik's Fun Fair. Plus there's the one-season wonders of Luminaria, Rockin' The Bay, and XGames. In the last 4 years they've spent untold millions on DCA marketing gimmicks, free ticket promotions, and additional attractions that weren't part of the original project scope. None of it has helped much. At what point do they realize one more batch of reappropriated capital from the fiscal year budget isn't going to move the needle much? When do they finally step back, realize DCA as originally envisioned just isn't working, and create a long term plan to turn DCA into something else? How much will it take? How long will it take? Can they really be that stupid? There are many questions about DCA's future.
Originally Posted By 9oldmen Well, from reading the article by Mr. Koenig, it seems that Al Lutz is not alone. Could they both be on to something? I certainly don't sense an "adgenda" from David the way SOME people might with Al.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Just proves over and over again....DCA was a waste of money and apparently for many, a waste of time. I do like the park in some respects, but Disney blew it SOOO bad with this park, it's sad. All that potential, the possibilities to grab all those loyal Disney fans and make new ones if they had an amazing theme park built right next door. They could've bought out the masses instead of giving a park that most people don't ever enter unless it's somehow discounted with DL added onto it. It's a shame. Maybe Monsters Inc will bring them all in next year, but I'm going to even ATTEMPT to hold my breath for that one .
Originally Posted By SJHYM Disney lost sight of one important fact that Walt used to tell his park people. Treat people right the first time around, otherwise it will cost you 5x that to get them to come back
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Well, from reading the article by Mr. Koenig, it seems that Al Lutz is not alone. Could they both be on to something? << Well it doesn't take a psycho-pathic to realize that DCA's current situation is untenable for the long run. And as others have pointed out, the 'onesy-twosy' approach to adding a new attraction here or there is unlikely to be the catalyst for a significant change in the general public's mindset. I'd like to think that managers inside of TDA are looking at the "DCA problem" on a macro-scale, and they understand that more is required than just a couple more rides - they need to address the park as a whole - an entire entity - and soon.
Originally Posted By ecdc DCA is so boring I've even avoided the "DCA is So Boring" threads. What is there left to say (though I found David's article interesting). I went to DCA for the first time a few years ago for about half-a-day while at Disneyland for four. At first I wondered what the big fuss was. Soarin' was fun, so was Screamin' and Grizzly. After the trip I even posted a report about why I didn't understand the hatred. Then I thought about why I didn't go back after that half-day. And ever since I've only been once, to ride those same three rides again. Westsider said it so well. This entire park needs renaming and rethinking on a grand scale. They've got just enough decent rides to form a backbone, but now they've got to fill in the middle significantly.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Maybe Monsters Inc will bring them all in next year." Not likely. It's going to take a lot more than that. It's been proven that DCA's problems cannot be solved with just one new ride. "Disney lost sight of one important fact that Walt used to tell his park people. Treat people right the first time around, otherwise it will cost you 5x that to get them to come back." True, but that philosophy has yet to solve DLP's problems. That park was a sight to see at opening however it will continue to be mired in debt into the foreseeable future. Just building a park along Walt's guidelines is no guarantee of success. It just isn't that simple.
Originally Posted By SJHYM I think thats apples and oranges. I dont think you can compare whats going on at DCA with DLP's problems.
Originally Posted By mstaft At DLP, the drain is the overbuilding of hotels- not the park. That has been well documented here many times. The comparison is apples and oranges...
Originally Posted By idleHands "How much will it take?" Far more than they're willing to spend. "How long will it take?" Far longer than we're willing to wait. "Can they really be that stupid?" Is this a trick question?
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Just building a park along Walt's guidelines is no guarantee of success. It just isn't that simple.>> No, but it also shows that Walt Disney really did do his homework well and went with the experts on locating the park. Contrast that to Eisner and EuroDisney. Of the 1200 sites considered in Europe, his staff strongly recomended two sites on the Mediterranean Coast in Spain. Those were already major tourist places, the Spanish Government was very easy to do business with and the weather was better than in France. But Eisner let his ego get the better of his decision making abilities, and Paris it was. In retrospect. For all the first hand culture he soaked up in Paris, he certainly learned nothing of the habits of the Parisians. The Frogs get a world class park that suffers and we get nuvo-blech crap park that suffers. These people never, ever done did their homework properly or turned it in on time. Most importantly, they have never, ever listened to "their" experts and that makes them very dangerous. Can you say; Fox Family Network?
Originally Posted By Park Hopper I wouldn't say they're stupid, they're just drowning in their own egos and they have an inability to face unpleasant and inconvenient truths.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “I don’t think you can compare whats going on at DCA with DLP's problems.†Well of course you can’t draw direct comparisons; however, it is rather inexpicable why the overall response to DLP has been so mediocre. My comment referred to a comment someone else made about Walt Disney's philosophy that you should "Treat people right the first time around, otherwise it will cost you 5x that to get them to come back." DLP followed the Disney tradition in basically every way and failed. For me this speaks volumes and should cause us to question whether Walt's philosophy is truly foolproof. This correlates directly with DCA. My point is that the company needs to reinvent the theme park experience while using the ideals that Walt Disney set forth as a guideline. It’s a different day and age with different tastes and expectations. DCA has a lot of challenges, but completely throwing everything out and going back to the basics (so to speak) is not the correct thing to do in my opinion. "But Eisner let his ego get the better of his decision making abilities, and Paris it was." You guys get so caught up in this behind the scenes Eisner soap opera drama. Come on, there's a lot more to it than just repeating "Eisner's ego" over and over. The French government made enormous concessions for Disney including building a national rail (TGV) station on the site. Yes, it was a poor decision, but in the end France offered the better deal. And who's to say that a Disneyland built on the Spainish site would have done any better? It's not like the park that was finally built on that site is outperforming DLP.
Originally Posted By SJHYM I think there seems to be a misunderstanding about DLP as compared to DCA. DLP has always been appreciated for a beautiful park with great attractions. The problems DLP faced were cultural, location (the Spain story is correct) and building a lot of hotels that remained empty. The park has never been really deserted like DCA but Disney found that people came out for the day and didnt do the other things that generated income. Also, the financing terms of DLP were terrible and were made worse when inflation hit Europe. DCA is a victim of DLP in some ways. After DLP lost so much money Disney decided to build smaller parks with smaller investments and then allow those parks to grow over time. DLP is a wonderful park, one of my favorites among Disneys theme parks. DCA doesnt compare at all. While each has had its problems, they are different as night and day. Had Disney built DCA right people would most definately have come.
