Originally Posted By Darkbeer The following link does contain "Adult" subject manner... <a href="http://www.drudgereport.com/flashaw.htm" target="_blank">http://www.drudgereport.com/fl ashaw.htm</a> >>ALLEN'S REVENGE: EXPOSES UNDERAGE SEX SCENES IN OPPONENT'S NOVELS Thu Oct 26 2006 20:05:37 ET Sen. George Allen, R-VA, unleashed a press release late Thursday that exposed his rival's fiction writing, which includes graphic underage sex scenes. The press release, as provided by the Allen Campaign: WEBB’S WEIRD WORLD The Author’s Disturbing Writings Show a Continued Pattern of Demeaning Women · Some of Webb’s writings are very disturbing for a candidate hoping to represent the families of Virginians in the U.S. Senate. · Many excellent books about the United States military and wartime service accomplish their purposes, and even win awards, without systematically demeaning women, and without dehumanizing women, men and even children. · Webb’s novels disturbingly and consistently – indeed, almost uniformly – portray women as servile, subordinate, inept, incompetent, promiscuous, perverted, or some combination of these. In novel after novel, Webb assigns his female characters base, negative characteristics. In thousands of pages of fiction penned by Webb, there are few if any strong, admirable women or positive female role models. Why does Jim Webb refuse to portray women in a respectful, positive light, whether in his non-fiction concerning their role in the military, or in his provocative novels? How can women trust him to represent their views in the Senate when chauvinistic attitudes and sexually exploitive references run throughout his fiction and non-fiction writings? · Most Virginians and Americans would find passages such as those below shocking, especially coming from the pen of someone who seeks the privilege of serving in the United States Senate, one of the highest offices in the land:<< Actual quotes from his writings at the link above....
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Wow. Talk about a stretch. LOL! Things must be getting desperate in the Allen camp.
Originally Posted By alexbook Is Webb even really a Democrat? He was Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan Administration. FYI: Here's Jim Webb's imdb page: <a href="http://imdb.com/name/nm0916136/" target="_blank">http://imdb.com/name/nm0916136 /</a> Here's his Amazon.com page: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/vmzm3" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/vmzm3</a>
Originally Posted By gadzuux Generally, DB likes to post things that are favorable to GOP viewpoints. With this one, I can't see that it portrays the republican candidate in a flattering light. If this is meant as an effective way to attack his opponent, all I see is dubious judgement on the part of allen and his campaign. But then, I'm one of the worst when it comes to understanding how republicans think. Maybe DB and others believe this story is a real "gotcha" tactic. Are there people who would decide their vote based upon fiction? Maybe it happens all the time with the GOP.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Are there people who would decide their vote based upon fiction? Maybe it happens all the time with the GOP.> We know it happens all the time with the Democrats.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Partisan stuff aside, Douglas, do you think this (bringing up the opponents works of fiction) is a viable campaign strategy?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Douglas, do you think this (bringing up the opponents works of fiction) is a viable campaign strategy?> I think that it would depend on the circumstances.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I guess to me, is smacks of desperation in these circumstances. Allen made a serious gaffe in making a racial slur caught on camera -- not smart for someone with an 'iffy' history on the subject of race -- and it tore up the large lead he had been enjoying. Desperate for 'revenge', late in the campaign, they dredge up (or Drudge up) works of fiction the guy wrote? If Stephen King runs for office, would they say "This guy is sick... he thinks up twisted ways to murder people... and he's mean to rabid dogs!"
Originally Posted By JohnS1 I have no idea if this attack on this Webb person will be effective or not. But why the emphasis by some of you on the fact that this is fiction? As long as it is not an autobiography, does that mean that it does not reflect at all on the writer's personality? Do you not believe that authors gravitate towards certain types of fiction based upon their own personal interests or beliefs, or desire to delve into certain areas of writing because it entertains them as they write it? I think what he wrote is disgusting (not to mention pretty bad writing) but I know that I am not at all a part of the contemporary reading public. I know that little old ladies buy books in our book store that make me blush to read. (Yes, I try to look at all the types of books to get a flavor of their style, topics, etc.) And most of what sells today is not my cup of tea. As I writer, I also know that a writer writes about subject matter that is going to keep him/her interested while writing. It's just natural to do so. So, while I don't think this Webb person is some sort of sex fiend or anything, it appears to me that the scenes he describes in his books must entertain him somewhat. Why else would he write them if he did not think they made for good reading? And so, to a certain extent, I believe that what he writes describes what he is like as a man, in some respects. Whether calling people's attention to his writing style is efffective or not is an entirely diferent matter. Some people may think that what he writes makes Webb even more "cool" in their viewpoints. We live in strange times, after all.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan But John, isn't it possible that Webb is exploring the darker side of certain types of characters? Kind of how some actors, who are really nice people in real life, love to play the bad guy on film? Maybe the interest in writing something R-rated is to just to create bizarre or dark characters as a plot device. From the context, we don't know if the characters are the 'hero' of the story or the villian. It's a little like violent video games or watching violent movies -- while some small percentage of people might get ideas from them they'd attempt to act out in real life, for the vast majority it is just escapisim -- an adrenaline rush.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan In other words, if I were going to write a book, and i wanted to create a particularly fiendish or unlikeable character, I would try to attribute all sorts of evil, twisted actions and mannerisms -- stuff that I might find particularly scary. But it wouldn't be 'me' or my interests I was creating. The guy may be someone who dresses funny and wears Disney t-shirts a lot, or tells bad jokes that no one laughs at or.... er... uh.... wait, I had a point... um......
Originally Posted By DlandJB Having lived in Virgina while Allen was Governor and then senator, I have to say that this man is about as stupid as a bucket of hair. I've never been so happy for term limits (Virginia's governors may only serve one term) as I was when Allen was governor.
Originally Posted By JohnS1 Every good person is capable of intense evil - at least that's the theory some psychiatrsts have offered. It just takes the right (or wrong) motivation or trigger to turn a Dr Jekyl into a Mr. Hyde, according to this theory. When I was much younger, I used to read Stephen King books for the dark, somewhat addictive horror in them. But I always felt a little bit harmed, somewhat diminished after reading them -as if I needed to check all the locks in my home, then wash my hands thoroughly and perhaps read something benign like the back of a cereal box before turning in for the night. I can't stomach most of what he writes anymore. Nor could I ever write anything along those lines. I know this probably seems really absurd to many of you, but I believe that what you read (and therefore what you write) can become as controlling a factor in your life as many other things you become addicted to. Eat too much, you will get fat. Drink too much, you will become an alcoholic. Look at too much pornography, you will become a hopeless addict to digital sex. Read too much excessively violent or perverted or hateful literature? I think it has to have an effect on people. But, of course, I am hopelessly out of touch with contemporary culture, and still think that reading books (and watching movies) should leave a person feeling optimistic and uplifted at the end.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I couldn't read King after I had kids. Especially something like "Pet Sematary." His books used to leave me with what I called a "reading hangover" Now I don't know anything about Webb. I didn't even know he was a writer. However, it isn't like these published books have been hiding -- they have been out there. Perhaps because reading isn't one of Allen's favorite activities, he was surprised to learn that. It seems like desperation time for Allen and since he isn't all that far back in the polls, it is curious. This may yet backfire on him.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Yeah, I understand your point, John. But I guess to me, not everyone who enjoys a drink advances to alcoholism. And most bartenders, I think, don't have much of a taste for the stuff after they see what it can do to people. I've never felt the bad feeling about myself you experienced after reading a Stephen King book. But I get whay you're saying -- I have no desire to see certain splatter/torture-horror movies. Perhaps it just means we have different limits -- both readers and writers. I'm just not sure that one size fits all and that we can, as the Allen camp seems to suggest here, automaticaly associate whhat are writer writes with how they are as human beings away from creating fiction. In any case, it does say something that with all there is going on in the world that the Senate would have a say in, that this is where they try to steer the spotlight. Strange days, indeed, as John Lennon said.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder When we get to the point to where we assign certain labels based upon what the person's imagination can dream up, we're really stretching to make a point. It's like penalizing someone for what they dreamed the night before. I'm surprised that other creative people would buy into that type of thinking. This ploy reeks of desperation, plain and simple.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "The Navy Cross is presented to James H. Webb, Jr., First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps, for extraordinary heroism while serving as a Platoon Commander with Company D, First Battalion, Fifth Marines, First Marine Division (Reinforced), Fleet Marine Force, in connection with combat operations against the enemy in the Republic of Vietnam. On 10 July 1969, while participating in a company-sized search and destroy operation deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb's platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex which appeared to be unoccupied. Deploying his men into defensive positions, First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers. Accompanied by one of his men, he then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. When the hostile soldiers failed to answer him and threw a grenade which detonated dangerously close to him, First Lieutenant Webb detonated a claymore mine in the bunker aperture, accounting for two enemy casualties and disclosing the entrance to a tunnel. Despite the smoke and debris from the explosion and the possibility of enemy soldiers hiding in the tunnel, he then conducted a thorough search which yielded several items of equipment and numerous documents containing valuable intelligence data. Continuing the assault, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade. Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body. Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker. By his courage, aggressive leadership, and selfless devotion to duty, First Lieutenant Webb upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and of the United States Naval Service." George Allen did not serve his country, shockingly enough.
