Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/01/13/national/w123152S52.DTL&feed=rss.news" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...rss.news</a> >>The incoming Obama administration should launch a criminal investigation of Bush administration officials to see whether they broke the law in the name of national security, a House Democratic report said Tuesday. President-elect Barack Obama has been more cautious on the issue and has not endorsed such a recommendation. Along with the criminal probe, the report called for a Sept. 11-style commission with subpoena power, to gather facts and make recommendations on preventing misuse of power, according to the report by the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee.<< More at the link.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I truly hope they don't go there. That would just divide the nation more than it already is. It would be as bad as when the Republicans went after Clinton. Sooner or later this divisive crap has to stop. We have a chance to start over and we should do just that. Obama can rectify the abuses, as he already plans to do with Gitmo. Bush screwed up but the American people screwed up by electing him twice. 2000 was questionable, but he fairly won the contest in 2004 when we all should have known better. America apparently agreed with what he was doing... why should he have changed? Let it be. Let Bush go back to West Texas and ride into the sunset.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^ agree 100% - many people who want this complained when the GOP did it to Bill -- let it go already if we are ever going to move on
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't understand this attitude at all. As President Elect Obama said just yesterday, nobody is above the law. If crimes were committed, they should be prosecuted.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I don't understand this attitude at all. As President Elect Obama said just yesterday, nobody is above the law. If crimes were committed, they should be prosecuted.>> If Obama were to proceed with this he would blow absolutely every bit of goodwill he currently has. Technically Clinton committed a crime by not telling the truth about Monica. Do you think he should have been prosecuted? Sooner or later we have to get past this politically motivated bullshit. We are ONE COUNTRY. We need to start acting like it. From the way we've behaved over the past dozen years you would think we're a freaking Banana Republic.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Let it be. Let Bush go back to West Texas and ride into the sunset.<< I agree. If President Bush or members of his administration broke the law, then the mechanisms to prosecute those offenses have been in place all this time. Why delve into that now, when he is leaving anyway? This is petty stuff. I really don't see Obama going down that road whatsoever, he's too smart for that. >>We are ONE COUNTRY. We need to start acting like it.<< Indeed. This "scorched earth" politics we've had for too long has to end. We have some HUGE problems to tackle, and this sort of distraction doesn't help one bit.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I want Lincoln prosecuted now - there are people who felt he broke several laws. ( including suspending habeas corpus) - and his repeated use of executive authority during the war. FDR - I want his backside too: In telling an audience of 1,500 some of the secrets of conditions of the American Navy just before the start of the war with Germany, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Assistant Secretary of the Navy, at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, last night, admitted that he had committed enough illegal acts to put him in ... also did he really know about PearlHarbor before it happened - If there is something that was done that was done - reverse it, immediately. If Bush murdered someone - or had someone murdered ( as many rumors about the Clintons ) - then fine - bring the case to court. much of the rest is partisan politics - nothing more. It was partisan politics 8 years ago - and it is again.
Originally Posted By gadzuux It's not just partisan politics, it's the very integrity of our government and our nation. And it's not comparable at all to clinton and monica - THAT was partisan "gotcha" politics. If only the concerns about bush were something as inconsequential as extramarital activities. The bush administration is suspected of circumventing the constitution and congress and the courts and the will of the people - on several fronts. These may be shown to be willful and deliberate acts. The president takes an oath before the nation to uphold the constitution. If he doesn't, then he is committing crimes against US - we the people. And he's diminishing our nation and the constitution. This isn't just some idle matter. As to comments that we've had all these years to initiate investigations - two things. Most importantly, the bush white house made it impossible to do so by refusing to provide subpeonaed documentation of their actions. Secondly - yes, it was decided for political reasons that it would be imprudent to pursue fact-finding in an election year. Dems were on a roll and investigations could have backfired. A third reason may be that dems were concerned that they may also be implicated in any investigations - they'd get caught in their own net. Tough. We're a nation of laws, and no one is above the law. The facts need to be laid bare and let the chips fall where they may. Where I'm flexible is in sentencing. Once it has been determined that crimes were indeed committed, with knowledge and foresight, there should be hearings. And if applicable, indictments. Let the record show exactly what happened. THEN, and only then, if people want to let bush, cheney and whomever else off the proverbial hook, well that can be considered. But let's not just shovel all this under the rug in the interests of "getting along". The GOP is setting themselves up to be an obstructionist party for the next four (and probably many more) years. The kumbaya are going to be few and far between. And I suspect that once the facts are known, these people who are now saying 'let it go' will change their tune. Either that or they'll find themselves advocating in FAVOR of corruption, malfeasance and high crimes. One more thing - it doesn't matter much what obama thinks - oversight of the executive branch is a function of congress. Obama's white house is about to undertake the task of closing guantanamo and determining what to do with these `ner-do-wells' currently there. That process alone is bound to expose war crimes. What are they going to do - cover up for the bush administration? Not likely. Evidence of criminal wrongdoing is going to keep cropping up, even if we're not actively looking for it. And not just in gitmo either - this regime change is going to expose a lot of past sins - perhaps from unlikely sources like the EPA and the department of energy. For us to have a standing policy to continually suppress the misdeeds of the previous administration is every bit as corrupt as they were. Let congress do their job. Investigations aren't for spite or revenge or partisan points - it's justice. We can have a government with integrity and honor - if we want it. And if it "divides the nation" in the process, at least you'll have the comfort of knowing that you're on the right side.
Originally Posted By mele I don't look at letting this all go as something done to "get along". It's about seeing that our country is in dire straights right now and we all need to be working towards making it better. We need to spend our energy/money/time working on solutions...not mucking around making Bush pay for his wrongs. To do so would stagnate, not re-energize, this country.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << And if it "divides the nation" in the process, at least you'll have the comfort of knowing that you're on the right side.>> It is very sad that people like you would find comfort in that. Just when I was starting to be proud again that I was a Democrat you go and screw it up for me. Frankly, between your vision for the U.S. and Winky's; I'd take Winky's. That is why the views you espouse will NEVER be accepted by the American public. People like you screw it up for people like you. :-(
Originally Posted By mele Do you really think Bush will get any "justice" at the end of all of this? That seems pretty naive.
Originally Posted By mele Of course, I phrased it badly. It is incredibly naive to think that Bush will face any sort of punishments for any crimes he committed.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda If those suspected are investigated and/or prosecuted, it should be done ONLY by the World Court. That is the only place where a fair and non-partisan trial even has a chance of occurring.
Originally Posted By alexbook If a U.S. Attorney can make a case against somebody, I say go for it, but Congress needs to stay out of this. They should have done something about Bush years ago, but they were to frightened of the political consequences. For them to "stand up" to Bush now that he's leaving is hypocritical.
Originally Posted By gadzuux It's only now that congress will have access to necessary materials - assuming they haven't been destroyed, and they may well have, in violation of specific court orders. That's a crime too. And I would be embarassed for our nation if some world court felt it necessary to step in. We can take care of this on our own, even with our internal dissenters who favor cover-ups and avoiding the facts. And as far as punishment for bush himself goes, he's already damned for all time. There's nothing to be done about that now. That's why he's looking to 'future historians' for his legacy - contemporary observers have already passed judgment, and he doesn't like it.
Originally Posted By alexbook >>It's only now that congress will have access to necessary materials - assuming they haven't been destroyed, and they may well have, in violation of specific court orders. That's a crime too. << Why haven't they been fighting harder to get those? Why haven't we seen Contempt of Congress citations flying? Why haven't Bush and Cheney been impeached? The Democrats in Congress have been too timid to do anything.
Originally Posted By dshyates After the Dems got control of the house and senate in '06, Pelosi said that she would NOT go after Bush because she feared it would hurt the Dems presidential chances in '08 if she did.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>If those suspected are investigated and/or prosecuted, it should be done ONLY by the World Court. That is the only place where a fair and non-partisan trial even has a chance of occurring.<< And if the World Court demands that we hand them over (which I fully expect)? That should be fun for Hillary. >> Why haven't they been fighting harder to get those? Why haven't we seen Contempt of Congress citations flying? Why haven't Bush and Cheney been impeached? The Democrats in Congress have been too timid to do anything.<< +1. They really are a bunch of spineless wusses, aren't they. They huff and puff and then cave. Every. Single. Time.
