Disney's FastPass System is Abusing Guests

Originally Posted By magnet

Yesterday I witnessed something at the Magic Kingdom that was really the last straw for me in regard to how Disney uses its FastPass system. I was at Big Thunder Mountain and watched as the ride was literally shutdown to "stand-by" riders (aka those without FastPasses) several times to allow large quantities of FastPass guests to move through the ride without waiting.

Too many FastPasses are being issued for Big Thunder Mountain.

Even the name "standy-by" indicates to a guest that he/she should only expect to ride when no FastPass guests are around. It used to seem that the FastPass load was light, but this time the numbers of FastPasses were more than the number of "stand-by" guests! It's a shame that Disney is letting its FastPass system tarnish the company name by making full-paying guests feel like they are lucky to get on a ride because they only have "stand-by" stature. On crowded days (which is nearly everyday now) you can really only hope to ride every major attraction once, and a select few twice before the end of the day. Now the numbers of FastPasses issued for a ride have to factor into a decision about whether to stand in line for it.

Yesterday I stood near the CM collecting FastPasses and allowing people to enter the ramp down to the Big Thunder ride platform below. Most often in the past I've watched as one of the two ramp lanes was used for FastPass, while the other was kept open for "stand-by" guests. This time both lanes were being used for FastPass, and occassionally "stand-by" guests would be allowed to enter the right lane only when there was a lull in FastPass walk-ups. There were so many FastPass holders that a steady stream of FastPass guests were walking in the queue entrance all the way to the ride platform for at least 30 minutes. Several times the "stand-by" queue stopped dead for ten minutes or more while FastPass guests loaded onto the trains. During one of these halts I watched people enter the FastPass queue, walk all the way through the queue, and disappear onto the ride platform below while I did not move a single step. As these stoppages continued I watched the length of the "standy-by" queue balloon from inside the covered waiting area to outside the entrance to the queue. When FastPass guests were restricted to only one lane of the ramp down to the ride platform, then the FastPass queue would begin to backup very quickly. That means there are way, way too many FastPasses being issued for this ride.

 

Originally Posted By PrincessDaniele

Wow...that's ridiculous! I would've been mad too...

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

The problem you described, is normal during busy times. So basically you are against the use of Fast Pass period?

Fast Pass if I am not mistaken is controlled by a very complex computer system and the problems you are seeing are caused by people not coming back at their alloted time but coming back two or 3 hours after their time specified.

Sorry to hear you don't like the Fast Pass system and you can only go on a few rides a trip, but the eliminating Fast Pass won't allow you to go on more rides per trip regardless of how much you think it effects it.

 

Originally Posted By davewasbaloo

But this is the key. I think Disney should stick to the 1 hour window for return (maybe allowing 15-20min grace tops). That would make it much more bearable.

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

But this is the key. I think Disney should stick to the 1 hour window for return (maybe allowing 15-20min grace tops). That would make it much more bearable.<<

There are abusers granted, but Disney would run into some serious problems if they did take a hard-line stand. Imagine you have a 2pm Fast Pass for Big Thunder, but have 130 reservations for Blue Bayou. Now service is considerably slow and now it's nearly 4pm and now you have to run just to make it in your designated window.

Or if you had a medical emergency, or the ride was down during your scheduled window.

I just think the logistics of enforcing a strict 2 hour window would be tough to overcome.

 

Originally Posted By davewasbaloo

But then why bother having windows of time, rather than "please do not arrive before x time"? It's no different than losing your priority seating in a restaurant if you are more than 15 min late.

 

Originally Posted By Disneymom443

I'm sorry that you had to wait. but you said that full-paying guest are haveing to wait and not treated fairly. Are you saying that because I use the fast pass that I'm not a full- paying guest? If you don't like the wait than use the fast pass yourself.

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

So the Fast Pass debate begins anew.....

 

Originally Posted By Elderp

^ I agree same ol, same ol...

Anyhow, for what it worth here is my same old pitch. FP is open to everyone, if you don't want to wait make sure you get one. Disney is in the habit of insuring max profits, anything else is not a good business practice. FP ensures that the line will always be in use, therefore CMs will always be busy. If CMs are always busy then Disney is making money than just paying CMs for idle time.

One the other hand guests who use FP have the advantage of knowing that if they use it they will be afforded a shorter wait time. If a guest doesn't use the FP, they are wasting your time. There are plenty of places in the world to vacation where advance planning is not necessary, but lets face it, Disneyland or Walt Disneyworld is not one of those places. If you want a non-planned vacation with Disney plan on paying $80/hr for a tour guide, then you wont have to worry about planning. Opportunity Cost once again.

 

Originally Posted By FerretAfros

"There are abusers granted, but Disney would run into some serious problems if they did take a hard-line stand."

The only thing they are doing by not enforcing it is encouraging people to show up whenever they want. If you know that you won't be able to use your expired FP, then you won't try. But if you try and they let you, what will stop you from doing it again. It's like letting your dog pee on the carpet, and you don't get mad. Instead, you give him a bone. Why would he ever wait to go outside again, when he gets a bone for going inside?

"Imagine you have a 2pm Fast Pass for Big Thunder, but have 130 reservations for Blue Bayou."

That's why the post the time window over the FP machines. I've had several occasions where I knew I couldn't make the window (mostly because we would be leaving earlier), so we didn't get FP's. It's not that difficult to say "Wait, that probably won't work out. Maybe we should try to get them on another ride." Or if you are dense enough to get them and you see later that it's not working out, you could always give them to other people, who I'm sure would appreciate them.

"Or if you had a medical emergency, or the ride was down during your scheduled window."

I'm not too sure how you could document a medical emergency to them (perhaps a written note from the park nurse? I know, it's a little elementary schoolish), but when the rides go down, they are always very leniant on the policy. They know that it's not the ideal situation, so they are flexible. Like so many things, this isn't just a cut and dry situation.

 

Originally Posted By mele

What "logistics" exactly would there be to enforce a 2 hour window? Signs at all of the rides and CMs saying "No". Sure people would be in a snit but if it's clearly posted, then there isn't much a person can do.

Plus, if you have a medical emergency that stops you from going on the ride, too bad. If you had some sort of medical problem...maybe going on a ride isn't what you should be focusing on.

 

Originally Posted By trekkeruss

<<I was at Big Thunder Mountain and watched as the ride was literally shutdown to "stand-by" riders>>

<<It used to seem that the FastPass load was light, but this time the numbers of FastPasses were more than the number of "stand-by" guests!>>

Were you actually counting, or did it seem that way? Did you stand in the stand-by line to confirm that the posted wait time was way off?

<<It's a shame that Disney is letting its FastPass system tarnish the company name by making full-paying guests feel like they are lucky to get on a ride because they only have "stand-by" stature.>>

I'll bet many people feel grateful for the system to exist.

<<On crowded days (which is nearly everyday now) you can really only hope to ride every major attraction once, and a select few twice before the end of the day.>>

Hasn't it always been like that? Is it Disney "fault" that more people want to visit their theme parks nowadays? Should they have kept it more of a secret so fewer guests could enjoy more on any give day?

<<Now the numbers of FastPasses issued for a ride have to factor into a decision about whether to stand in line for it.>>

What is preventing you from getting a FP for all these attractions, or would you rather stand in the stand-by line and gripe about FP?

 

Originally Posted By mrkthompsn

I still contend that the CM's operating the Fastpass lines must inherently be experts at fourth-order differential equations to successfully administer Fastpass riders.

 

Originally Posted By mrkthompsn

Yes Fastpass is available to everyone, but to those with young kids, it is simply not feasible to dash around the park in the morning with kids in tow to collect Fastpasses, then begin your first attraction at 10:30 or 11:00 am.

If they insist on keeping Fastpasses, I'd much rather pay for it. (grudge)

 

Originally Posted By wahooskipper

I'm a parent with two children who is a fan of Fastpass...but I will admit...I rarely go to WDW in peak season.

I don't get the whole "it isn't fair argument". A lot of things about the park aren't fair.

Is it fair that I can ride almost everything in early December for the same price that you can ride less than half of the attractions in July?

How many Fastpasses can you collect early in the morning? I thought you could only hold two at any one time.

I like that I can get a Fastpass for Peter Pan's Flight and then take the kids to the little playground area or over to Toontown to see some characters. Trying to keep those kids in line is no picnic for me and even worse for those around us.

Again, I haven't experience FP during peak operating times but the times I have used it have been pretty simple and effective.

 

Originally Posted By WilliamK99

Yes Fastpass is available to everyone, but to those with young kids, it is simply not feasible to dash around the park in the morning with kids in tow to collect Fastpasses, then begin your first attraction at 10:30 or 11:00 am.

If they insist on keeping Fastpasses, I'd much rather pay for it. (grudge)<<

That isn't how Fast Pass works, once you get the first FP you have to wait a certain period of time before you are allowed another Fast Pass, os your idea of spending all morning running around getting Fast Passes, isn't entirely how it works. What is to prevent you from grabbing a FP on your way to your 1st attraction?

 

Originally Posted By mrkthompsn

By the time it takes to get even two Fastpasses, you could have just waited in a Fastpassless line.

 

Originally Posted By wahooskipper

On my last trip we got through Tomorrowland/Fantasyland pretty well with Fastpasses. (Again, this was early December.)

We went in and grabbed FP for Buzz Lightyear and then went to ride the TTA (no line). In fact, we also got over to Autopia and back to Buzz before FP expired.

Then, we went and got FP for Pooh, I think, and went to Toontown to see some characters. From Pooh we went to get FP for Pan then rode Small World. After Pan we had a nice lunch and then went over to Adventure Land/Frontierland. The kids weren't riding Splash or BTMRR so we went on to Jungle Cruise and then stood in line about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes for Pirates which was our longest wait of the day.

Then we caught the train back over to Toontown for some more character meets (waiting a while at Mickey's house) and then we strolled down Main Street and headed out of the park before 5:30pm.

Now, we go pretty often so we aren't trying to rush but that turned out to be one of our nicer days there spending a reasonable amount of time standing in real lines while using virtual lines to allow us to do other things.

I think you have to understand the Fastpass is a tool but it certainly doesn't solve all ills. If you are only interested in riding the main attractions and getting on as many of them as possible Fastpass won't necessarily be completely helpful. But it can help here an there throughout your day.

 

Originally Posted By magnet

>>>The problem you described, is normal during busy times.<<<

No, shutting off ride access to "stand-by" guests in order to accommodate an overload of FastPass guests is not how I imagine the original idea was intended. I believe FastPass was conceived with good intentions. What I saw on Sunday shows me that it cannot be well executed.

>>>Fast Pass if I am not mistaken is controlled by a very complex computer system and the problems you are seeing are caused by people not coming back at their alloted time but coming back two or 3 hours after their time specified.<<<

There is no need for some super complicated computer program to administer FastPass. If that actually exists, it's stupid and part of the problem. If there is high demand for FastPasses, the ticket machines can be dispensing tickets for a 4 PM return time by 10:30 AM. In order to regulate FastPass, you need a way to regulate the number of people coming in to the FastPass queue with some kind of feedback based on the wait times at that exact moment. You can't do anything about the number of FastPasses being redeemed at 1 PM if the machine is currently issuing ones for 8 PM that night.

It's also not practical to tell a guest that they cannot use the FastPass after the allotted window has expired. I'm sure getting a mass redemption of expired tickets happens a lot, but it cannot fully account for the steady stream of FastPass guests I saw on Sunday. Here again is where this simple problem confounds even the most complex prediction algorithm. There needs to be a feedback control on the rate of FastPass redemptions. The only way this could be done now is by using the red time cards. I doubt any kind of control like this would be very practical which again shows the problem with FastPass.

>>>eliminating Fast Pass won't allow you to go on more rides per trip regardless of how much you think it effects it.<<<

Yes, I despair at how few rides I can get in a day. No, FastPass is not causing this problem. With FastPass, one trades one's freedom to choose when to ride (and how many times to ride) for little to no waiting time. If you're going to run the rides using a reservation system, then let's just create a schedule for everyone. This is your allotted time in Fantasyland, Adventureland, Tomorrowland, etc. Oh, you wanted to each lunch? Well, your allotted lunch time is 1 - 1:30 PM at Cosmic Ray's. Don't like it? Too bad. That's the FastPass world.

>>>I just think the logistics of enforcing a strict 2 hour window would be tough to overcome.<<<

Definitely. This is not possible.

 

Originally Posted By magnet

>>>I'm sorry that you had to wait. but you said that full-paying guest are haveing to wait and not treated fairly. Are you saying that because I use the fast pass that I'm not a full- paying guest? If you don't like the wait than use the fast pass yourself.<<<

Well, I can turn that around. Are you saying that because I didn't have a FastPass that I'm less of a guest than you? See, here is where another problem begins to creep in. FastPass is creating a hierarchy of guests within the park. Not everyone is on a level playing field anymore.

Oh, but you can just go get a FastPass yourself. Yes, and I do. Nowhere did I say that using FastPass is morally reprehensible or evil. You would be stupid not to use it. You have to use it if you hope to have an equal experience with everyone else. But I shouldn't have to go get a FastPass. The only FastPass I or anyone else should need is an admission ticket. The CMs who have to work with the system are not the problem either. FastPass itself is the problem.

>>>So the Fast Pass debate begins anew<<<

>>>I agree same ol, same ol...<<<

No. It's not the same old dead horse. It's mutated, and it may zing your butt someday soon.

>>>There are plenty of places in the world to vacation where advance planning is not necessary, but lets face it, Disneyland or Walt Disneyworld is not one of those places.<<<

But FastPass eliminates YOUR ability to plan. Your day is planned for you, and the quality of your day will reflect your ability to vie with other guests for tickets to the most popular rides. So, if we want to give in to it, let's just get it over with and move to a completely planned day at the park for every guest with strict reservation times for each ride, dinner, and show.

But I don't want to ride Space Mountain at 8:10 AM. Too bad.

But I don't want to ride Primeval Whirl right after lunch. Too bad.

But I want to ride Big Thunder Mountain after dark. Too bad.

Don't we just love it! Minimum waits for all the rides! Yippeeee!

>>>Were you actually counting, or did it seem that way? Did you stand in the stand-by line to confirm that the posted wait time was way off?<<<

Yes, I stood in the stand-by line. I watched the times carefully once I realized what was happening.

>>>I'll bet many people feel grateful for the system to exist.<<<

They shouldn't. It's the weaker guests and those with small children who can't sprint around the park that the system discriminates against the most.

>>>Hasn't it always been like that? Is it Disney "fault" that more people want to visit their theme parks nowadays? Should they have kept it more of a secret so fewer guests could enjoy more on any give day?<<<

FastPass is not the reason the parks are crowded.

>>>What is preventing you from getting a FP for all these attractions, or would you rather stand in the stand-by line and gripe about FP?<<<

I get as many as I can. I don't fault anyone for using them. I don't fault any CM for doing his/her job. I finally decided how I feel about the cards we've been dealt by the company. Yes, I'm going to scream long and loud and hard about it, and sorry if you don't like it.