Disney's rumored project now is on paper

Discussion in 'Walt Disney World News, Rumors and General Disc' started by See Post, Dec 15, 2006.

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    Originally Posted By Darkbeer

    Looks like Kevin Yee was correct....

    <a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-disney1606dec16" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com
    /business/custom/tourism/orl-disney1606dec16</a>,0,1064958.story?coll=orl-business-headlines-tourism

    >>Bulldozers might soon push around dirt in an area called Walt Disney World's "Western Beltway Development," but they would not be preparing the land for any immediate construction.

    Reedy Creek Improvement District filed paperwork Thursday seeking state permission to clear and excavate a small part of a 330-acre site at the interchange of the new State Road 429 expressway and Disney's Western Way entrance road.

    This fall, unconfirmed Internet reports pinpointed the area as a future Disney hotel, condominium, shopping and dining district known as the "Western Beltway Development." Disney officials would not discuss plans for the site, and until now would not acknowledge a "Western Beltway Development" exists.

    The grading application filed Thursday with South Florida Water Management District publicly names the area as "Western Beltway Development," defines it as 330 acres and identifies it with maps. The application includes a consultant's report that says the site likely would be for "hotels, clubs, restaurants and similar tourist commercial use."<<
     
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    Originally Posted By MPierce

    Thanks for the update Darkbeer. I'm still trying to decide if this is going to be a good thing or a bad thing. I really wish people more in the know about this would state their opinions.
     
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    Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

    ^^It would be a bad thing. A very bad thing. WDW is overdeveloped as is right now ... and that's with Phase 3 of Saratoga Springs not built ... half of Pop Century not completed and construction having not begun for the DVCs at both DAK Lodge and the Contemporary (although you can see where they're setting up the construction offices on the STOLPORT site).

    The last thing WDW needs to do is make the Western Beltway area look like Buena Vista Drive ... all pavement and traffic lights and buses and cars.

    Just because you have the land doesn't mean you must develop it.

    Disney's mentality of going for build-out, which began around 15 years ago under Michael Eisner, really scares me.

    Things are finally starting to look up in so many areas across property after reaching their nadir in the 1998-2003 period, the last thing Disney needs is to start overbuilding again.
     
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    Originally Posted By mstaft

    ^^ Totally right on...
     
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    Originally Posted By trekkeruss

    The motivation for the development is to capture the dollars Disney doesn't currently make off of those guests who are already going to I-Drive and so on. While I don't doubt Disney would make money, I think they should stick to what they do best, and not act so predatory towards surrounding businesses.
     
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    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    <<It would be a bad thing. A very bad thing.>>

    I think it could be a good thing (the Spirit knew I would find something good to say... I couldn't disappoint him).

    This is probably a dream, but the one thing WDW does NOT have now is truly upscale development. Could it be possible that Disney plans to reverse the Wal-Martization of WDW?

    Are they perhaps thinking of brining Venetian/Bellagio style hotels to WDW?

    Do they plan a shopping district similar in quality to the Forum Shops at Caesar's Palace?

    Do they plan on trendy nightclubs with a $40 cover where beautiful people under 35 spend a month's salary on the clothes they wear while drinking and dancing the night away?

    Do they maybe plan on putting up some DVC Condos that are truly top quality? Condos that vbdad could afford but RoadTrip couldn't?

    WDW already has every other level of hotel, shopping and condos known to man. Could they possibly be going after the high-end market??
     
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    Originally Posted By MPierce

    I agree the area is being over developed. I totally agree with everything everyone has said so far. My only reason for saying I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing is, I think it's going to happen no matter what. The land has become to valuable to just sit there indefinitely. I love WDW being so wide open, that's part of it's charm, unlike Disneyland. I was just hoping it could be done in a themed way that could fit in.
     
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    Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom

    I'm begining to get concerned about what WDW is turning into. I think the parks are just side order and all the construction is the main course. I prefer my meal ingredients more
    "fresh" rather than prefab.

    Lets see what Disney does with the property first. I hope its not going to become a Vegas.
     
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    Originally Posted By basas

    I have a hard time buying the "Wal-Mart" argument often presented on here (though I would agree quality has gone downhill at WDW in some areas, the products I buy at Wal-Mart are the same as anywhere else (though at a cheaper price)). However, if I understood Kevin Yee’s article correctly, it sounded as if this development was the exact opposite of what you’re saying…it sounds to me like this is ‘low-end’ development going after the International Drive/US-192 crowd. Not saying this is a good or a bad thing, but if it was the ‘low-end’ market they were going after, I would think this would once again be bringing the ‘overall quality’ down, not up. Anyway see differently?
     
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    Originally Posted By basas

    ^^ That in response to:

    <<WDW already has every other level of hotel, shopping and condos known to man. Could they possibly be going after the high-end market??>>

    Personally, I would like to see Pop Century finished, Saratoga Springs finished, and the additions of DVC to Contemporary and AKL finished and then a halt on new developments until things once again start changing and there is a need to expand. It’s time to stop focusing on adding 2,000 more budget hotel rooms and another 600 DVC units and time to start focusing on pulsing the 4 parks, and eventually building a 5th park (after the 4 we have are all top quality, full day parks of course).
     
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    Originally Posted By basas

    Pulsing = plussing...if that is even a word...!
     
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    Originally Posted By fkurucz

    >>it sounds to me like this is ‘low-end’ development going after the International Drive/US-192 crowd.<<

    That would make sense (from a business perspective). Its a demographic that they have not tapped into. They seem to be locking up the higher end demographic with DVC and the midrange with the economy and moderate resorts.

    I suppose they figure that the off property demographic is going to grow, so they might as well have them stay in company owned hotels.
     
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    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    <<>>it sounds to me like this is ‘low-end’ development going after the International Drive/US-192 crowd.<<

    That would make sense (from a business perspective)..>>

    Without meaning to insult anyone, how can you possibly get more low end than the Value resorts? They are only 260 square feet and the resorts have no amenities other than a food court, gift shop and couple of pools. They don't even have bell services.

    I've stayed in the Value resorts several times and always had a good time there. But other than being located on Disney property the rooms are basically Motel 6 in quality.
     
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    Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom

    At this point I have to honestly say I don't know which demographic Disney is going for. I'm not so certain they are going for the American Express Black Card crowd since they are still going to Lake Como in Italy. I'm not sure how Disney is going to "lure" that demographic to WDW. That demographic doesn't like being "shoulder to shoulder" with others in the parks. They have the money and they don't have to put up with the crowds.

    I'm not so certain that Disney is shooting for the "Wal-Mart" crowd. If they were then why aren't they ( pardon the anology ) expanding the campground? Seems to me there are a lot of people who own campers and are willing to pay the $35 a night for a hook up rather than a Value resort room.
     
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    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    I see what you mean Tom. One thing I forget to consider is that Vegas can draw large numbers of people to Bellagio/Venetian quality hotels because they are only charging $250 - $300 per night for the rooms... less than you will pay for most WDW Deluxes.

    Without gambling revenue to support the hotels, Disney would probably have to charge at least $600 - $700 per night. Whether or not there would be enough people willing to pay that amount would be a major question.

    I guess I'm clueless then as to what demographic they could be going after. They really couldn't offer anything lower priced than the present Value Resorts unless they gave up the minimal themeing they have and cut out the bus service. Once you've done that, why would anyone rather stay there than in a room at the Super 8?

    I will be very disappointed if Disney just offers more of the same thing they already have.

    There is one other demographic they could conceivably be going after... the DINKs and the empty nesters. If they opened up Moderate - Deluxe adult only resorts and restaurants, SIGN ME UP!!
     
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    Originally Posted By Darkbeer

    >>Without gambling revenue to support the hotels, Disney would probably have to charge at least $600 - $700 per night. Whether or not there would be enough people willing to pay that amount would be a major question.<<

    Why? As I understand it, the average couple will only "lose" a few hundred dollars gambling during their visit, which is usually a few days. So Disney gets a few hundred dollars in revenue in admissions, and both the Casino and the Parks have overhead in labor and the "attractions".

    I don't see that much of a difference, except the fact that at WDW they have a "closed" shop, where unless you are willing to drive and stay off property, you have to pay the higher prices.

    Vegas prices are low due to the competition!
     
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    Originally Posted By fkurucz

    >>Without meaning to insult anyone, how can you possibly get more low end than the Value resorts? <<

    You a offer an EconoLodge with mouse ears and even fewer amenities than a value resort (perhaps just bus services) and charge $10-20 less per night than the Value resorts. It wouldn't be a resort, just a place to sleep at night that's just a smidgen more convenient than staying off property.
     
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    Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom

    I think the comparison that RoadTrip is trying to make is that the hotels in ( for example ) Vegas are affordable for the everyday person as the REAL money generator in Vegas are going to be the Gambling. Disney doesn't have gambling and won't have gambling so.. you can't rob Peter to pay Paul. If Disney wants to have more upscale rooms then they are going to have to charge more for those rooms.

    Its more likely that the proposed developement is going to have more Saratoga Springs DVC like properties simular to a DTD like area. I believe that Disney wants an additional DTD / Pleasure Island like experience on property.

    For all we know Disney might be gearing itself more for the convention crowd and want more larger resort facilities for the business savy travelor. Here in Atlanta he have many massive hotels that easily dwarf Disney's resorts. OK, I know that Disney's "resorts" are considered to the be largest of their kind in the world. My point is that Disney's resorts ( especially their Moderate and Value resorts ) are spread out and can take a considerable amount of time to negotiate. All of which requires a certain amount of leisure time if your going to stay at these resorts. Meanwhile, business travellors are use to massive enclosed hotel accomidations where you just "fly" up elevators to your room instantly. Or, "drop" down to the lobby to the many different restaurants and shops.

    Disney is great at creating "lesiure" hotels and not hotels for the business crowd. Disney can't handle conventions. I don't see Orlando improving its highway system to accomidate greater flexibility to move massive amounts of people from the airport or downtown Orlando / Convention Center hotels to WDW. So perhaps Disney is eyeing this segment and saying if build convention facilities on property and large convention hotels and get them to stay on property then lots more money for us.
     
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    Originally Posted By RoadTrip

    <<So Disney gets a few hundred dollars in revenue in admissions, and both the Casino and the Parks have overhead in labor and the "attractions".>>

    My guess (and it is only an informed guess) is that where Vegas Casinos subsidize the hotels; at WDW the hotels are expected to subsidize the parks.

    <<Vegas prices are low due to the competition!>>

    No doubt that has a lot to do with it.
     
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    Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom

    I'm convienced that Disney isn't building for the "Wal-Mart" crowd or the American Express Black Card crowd. The build it and they will come concept doesn't work for either crowd. They want the middle class. Especially the upper middle class. And I'm sure they are eyeing the convention market.
     

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