Originally Posted By jmuboy I was thinking while driving around today, what if WDW passed over the BAD idea of adding a DVC tower to the Contemporary Resort. Instead, what if a couple of DVC only "longhouses" were added to the Polynesian Resort. Possibly with a new pool and restaurant in the general area of the new longhouses to help service the additional guests. In my mind only around 100 or so new DVC rooms would be added to the Poly to help keep its feel of a small more quiet hotel.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Personally, I would plug the DVC concept which I feel is a venture Disney only got into to compete with outside companies.. Same reason why they came up with MGM, DAK and PI. Is there any originality at WDC's headquarters anymore?
Originally Posted By jmuboy While I don't disagree the WDC has a bad habbit of being copy cats, the DVC is not going away. Nor is WDW mgmt, which is what I'd really like to pull the plug on.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Management change doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen. As to DVC, you can be sure that there already are designs for DVC at EVERY monorail resort.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj The original plans for DVC envisioned Disney investing in far more Disney branded resorts outside of Orlando. It was supposed to open up a new market for Disney vacactions outside of theme parks. The Hilton Head and Vero Beach properties were among the first DVC properties that Disney built when they entered the time-share market. However, when it came to demand for DVC, they really had trouble selling out the non-Orlando units while the WDW properties sold out very quickly. Now, if you were a Disney executive, would you stick with the original DVC strategy that was struggling to stay afloat or go with the current strategy of building on property that you already own and with resorts that already have built in guest services and very high demand? Even though it is a near-sighted strategy, it would be very difficult to turn down those short-term gains. Ultimately, I think Disney will need to expand their non-WDW offerings in order to keep DVC guests interested in the long term. I can't really imagine that taking a WDW vacation every year for 50 years would be all that enjoyable time and again. Having a variety of Disney resorts at destinations outside of the theme park realm would give DVC guests greater options on how to spend their vacations and truly make it a "vacation club." I fear that if Disney doesn't expand beyond Orlando, you'll start seeing DVC re-sales in record numbers as people grow tired with the idea.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I fear that if Disney doesn't expand beyond Orlando, you'll start seeing DVC re-sales in record numbers as people grow tired with the idea.>> If most people are like us, I don't think so. I would never buy enough DVC points to cover ALL of our vacations no matter how many DVC locations there were. We know we want to go to either WDW or DL at least once a year and that is how we use our DVC points. We also always go on at least one and usually two non-Disney vacations per year that we just do on cash. For those we wouldn't want to be tied to any timeshare program no matter how many locations they had. So will we ever get tired of our DVC vacations? I can't imagine that we would. We've been to WDW every year now for 12 years in a row and we still look forward to each visit just as much as we did the previous year.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Just some DVC thoughts for Trippy and others ... Even if you and many others buy DVC almost exclusively to use your points at WDW and are happy doing so, many others will likely grow bored very quickly ... and that's assuming Disney will freshen its park and resort offerings, and we all know that's an iffy proposition. Many of those owners, and other potential buyers, will start thinking that Starwood, Hilton and Marriott can offer great resorts on the doorstep of the Mouse but also all over the planet, and they will opt to dump DVC or never buy to begin with. That's why DVC's recent model of making WDW over into The Timeshare Kingdom of the World may be great for the bottom line short-term, but could be disasterous in the future. Part of me thinks Disney is realizing this. Just look at the 'hints' the company has been dropping lately. ... It's basically a certainty that Anaheim will FINALLY see a DVC property 15 years after its inception ... Adventures By Disney is being heavily hyped and it's in many locales that Disney originally looked at as future growth opps for DVC. They are also pushing it on folks who ... and there's no gentle way of putting this ... are largely sheltered Americans who are afraid of traveling much further than WDW. You can see this by watching their marketing and how they are pushing the program ... it's almost like 'If you fly over the big scary Atlantic Ocean to London Mickey will be at Heathrow to greet you and you'll be able to have chicken fingers eight times a day!' ... Yes, that's an exaggeration, but a very slight one. ... It would seem to me that no matter the absurd, and they are that, prices that Adventures By Disney charges, the program isn't designed to last more than a few years. If so, you have to wonder just what the purpose is ... my gut says it's to see how well Disney can convince potential DVCers of how much they'd love resorts from Italy to Wyoming from France to Costa Rica. And then today, you have Samantha Brown (hope she showered good after the Mouse got done with her!) shilling DVC in two places where DVC should be, but isn't, DLP and NYC. Something tells me Disney is finally waking up to the reality that much like with theme parks in Florida, there is going to come a point of diminishing returns and we are a lot closer to it now. So does Disney just eventually allow DVC to stagnate when growth at WDW slows to a trickle ... or does Disney do the bold, smart, agressive and LONG TERM smart thing of expanding DVC in varied locales?
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, Your observations are interesting and you really might be right....What I am trying to figure out is why did they ever build the property on Hilton Head? Vero Beach makes sense to me relating to the early days of the program and its location in regards to WDW....But as far as the future of the DVC program it seems somewhat of a mystery as to where it really will go next offsite....
Originally Posted By mrichmondj Disney originally had agreements to develop DVC resorts in NYC at Times Square and Newport Beach in California. If the non-WDW DVC resorts had performed better, these would have been the next sites to be developed instead of all the WDW properties. Disney gave up the rights to those real estate ventures when they found that there wasn't a whole lot interest in non-WDW DVC.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Simply put, people want to visit WDW. People want an all inclusive vacation that covers everyting from rooms, meals, entertainment and transportation. Disney realized that when they began running the Disney Cruise Line. And people WANT to stay on WDW property. Disney HAS built DVCs off property as they knew quests wanted to spend time at the beach, etc. Disney has gone out and bought property potentially for DVCs. I already mentioned that huge piece of property that Disney bought in the Ashville area of North Carolina. Disney hasn't done anything with it yet. They are just sitting on it. The biggest threat to DVC on WDW property is there ever increasing presence on property. As more units are being built it takes away from the "homey" feeling Disney is trying to sell them with. There are so many out them, especially SSR&S it looks like your typical apartment building. I don't know about you. But I own a house. I'm not an apartment dweller. I can think of far better things to do than to make my way through a cluster of aparement complexes trying to find my "suite". Simply put, with its continued growth on porperty, Disney has diluted the excitement of ownership into the DVC program. DVCs are not so "special" or Magical anymore. We have already head from some DVC owners here that have said there are some resort DVCs that they will never return to despite owning points at those resorts ( not a good thing to say after you have invested thousands of dollars at a specific DVC property). Not to mention that Disney has virtually stripped away any perks they once offered to DVC quests. I'm basing my opinion on my recent visit to WDW. The DVCs are just everywhere. The DVC sales stands are in every park. The danger Disney faces is that when DVCs start to be the norm, the other tired but true Disney resorts as well as off property resorts, start looking MORE magical.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Again, I'm obviously just speaking for myself here, but Disney-related DVC locations are the only place I would have interest (Anaheim and the overseas Disney parks would be great!). I guess when I'm planning a non-Disney vacation I like having the flexibility of going wherever I want and staying at whatever accommodations I want. In the recent past we've vacationed at Washington DC, Chicago, Branson, Dallas, Anaheim, Las Vegas, Trinidad CA, Duluth MN and the Brainerd Lakes area of northern Minnesota. There is no way they would ever build DVC at all of those locations and even if they did I'm not sure I'd be interested in ALWAYS staying with the mouse. They may have to add locations to attract new buyers, but looking at it from just personal interest it really makes me no difference. As for resale value, I never considered DVC an 'investment' anyway so it doesn't make much difference. After all... in 2042 it all goes 'poof' anyway (and I may go 'poof' well before that.)
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Case in point! And everyone please don't get me wrong. I don't want to sound like a mean evil person. DVCs are great for what they are. I don't have a complaint about the DVC concept. I much rather prefer the DVC concept over traditional Timeshares anyday. Forget about being locked into a specific week each week to the same place every year.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, Your observations are interesting and you really might be right....What I am trying to figure out is why did they ever build the property on Hilton Head? Vero Beach makes sense to me relating to the early days of the program and its location in regards to WDW...>> I don't know enough about the early days of DVC to really know why/how Hilton Head came to be picked, but I do know (first-hand) that it is a truly wonderful resort in an amazing area. Just thinking about my last visit makes me want to return! <<But as far as the future of the DVC program it seems somewhat of a mystery as to where it really will go next offsite....>> Well, the next non-WDW will definitely be Anaheim. That's a done deal. They're just waiting for the proper media whoring party to announce it ... and I say it'll happen when they re-christen the subs next summer. But beyond DL ... I dunno. I sure would like to see DVC in NYC. Disney already has a huge presence on Broadway, not to mention the World of Disney store. Seems like a no-brainer.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney originally had agreements to develop DVC resorts in NYC at Times Square and Newport Beach in California.>> Yes. They did. And the Marriott timeshare at Newport Beach (on the Disney site) might be the most high-end, beautiful vacation ownership resort anywhere and on amazing piece of land overlooking the Pacific. What an awful decision Eisner/Disney made to go for a quick real estate profit grab. STUPID! <<If the non-WDW DVC resorts had performed better, these would have been the next sites to be developed instead of all the WDW properties. Disney gave up the rights to those real estate ventures when they found that there wasn't a whole lot interest in non-WDW DVC.>> Partially true. What's also true is Disney decided it would be much easier to just makeover WDW as the world's largest timeshare resort INSTEAD of cultivating a new business unit by actually INVESTING in it. Eisner and Co. just took the easiest way to the quickest buck. There was no long-term thinking involved. I'm not sure with DVC being added to DAK Lodge and the Contemporary, Saratoga still finishing its third phase and the possible development of the Bonnet Creek property overlooking Eagles Pines and Osprey Ridge, that Disney has changed thinking yet. But I'm hopeful that DVC at DL and the other 'hints' being dropped that TWDC might be finally looking at opps outside WDW!
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << Eisner and Co. just took the easiest way to the quickest buck. There was no long-term thinking involved. I'm not sure with DVC being added to DAK Lodge and the Contemporary, Saratoga still finishing its third phase and the possible development of the Bonnet Creek property overlooking Eagles Pines and Osprey Ridge, that Disney has changed thinking yet. >> Pretty much true, but you also have to take into account that DVC at WDW has been one of the only bright spots in Disney theme parks since attendance started to fall off the cliff in 2000 and 2001. The short term gains from DVC have kept the cash flow running at WDW when it otherwise would have been running very negative cash flow deficits without the DVC income. In the past couple of years, park income has increased and is now back to pre-2000 levels -- which is why I think you are hearing more talk of non-WDW DVC now. They don't need the short term cash infusion to keep the Disney parks afloat as much with attendance strong again. We'll see what happens with the macro-economy next year and if a coming U.S. recession changes any plans to invest in non-WDW DVC in the next few years.
Originally Posted By kennect Spirit, I have stayed at the Hilton Head property and could never figure out if the idea of having the seperate beach property was a good idea or not...What did you think of it? Nicely done but one of the worst areas on HH for beach front property if you really want to be on the beach....
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Pretty much true, but you also have to take into account that DVC at WDW has been one of the only bright spots in Disney theme parks since attendance started to fall off the cliff in 2000 and 2001.>> Well, yeah that was true for a few years, but attendance has rebounded very well since 2003-04 ... led by DL's hugely successful 50th. <<The short term gains from DVC have kept the cash flow running at WDW when it otherwise would have been running very negative cash flow deficits without the DVC income. In the past couple of years, park income has increased and is now back to pre-2000 levels -- which is why I think you are hearing more talk of non-WDW DVC now. They don't need the short term cash infusion to keep the Disney parks afloat as much with attendance strong again.>> Am I the only one who thinks phrases like negative cash flow are a bit unusual (or should be) on fan sites? And, no, I am not trying to censor you in any way. If I had my way, there'd be no censorship ... no moderators at all. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. <<We'll see what happens with the macro-economy next year and if a coming U.S. recession changes any plans to invest in non-WDW DVC in the next few years.>> You are the most cheerful poster on LP.com bar none, mrichmondj. Have you ever thought to bring up nuclear obliteration, global warming or ... even feline AIDS to lighten your posts?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, I have stayed at the Hilton Head property and could never figure out if the idea of having the seperate beach property was a good idea or not...What did you think of it? Nicely done but one of the worst areas on HH for beach front property if you really want to be on the beach....>> I don't think Disney had any choice. The environmentalists control development tightly on HH. And I think that's a good thing, actually. So while the Beach House is a trek, it doesn't bother me in the scheme of things.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << You are the most cheerful poster on LP.com bar none, mrichmondj. >> It must just be the spirit of the Christmas season getting to me. I'm usually a lot more pragmatic.
