EPCOT: no longer special

Originally Posted By SJHYM

I posted earlier this week about my wifes and my trip to EPCOT for our anniversary. EPCOT Center has always been my favorite park. But I also commented about the fact that I felt something was missing on my last trip. A couple of people asked what I meant. I have been think alot about this. Here is what I think.

To me EPCOT has symbolized the great things that Disney could do. As a park I thought the combination of looking to the future and a look at cultures were fantastic.

Was there anything more impressive than Spaceship Earth? Just standing in front of it was incredible. I remember that people were shocked that there was even a ride inside. Universe of Engery with its solar panels, World of Motion with the winding cars outside, Journey into Imagination with a great ride and then you could go upstairs and play for hours in the Image Works. The Land with the Listen to the Land boat ride and its amazing gardens, Kitchen Kabaret with a fun show that was educational, Horizons that had the technology to pick your own ending and characters that looked vaguely familiar from the COP.

Walk to the beginning of World Showcase and standing at the lagoon and looking around and seeing the impressive American Adventure, the Eiffel Tower in France, the unbelievable Temple of Heaven in China, the torii Gate of Japan. Then when you walked around you could lose yourself inside the pavillions some with movies, all with shops that had fascinating things to look at.

I think that one of the things that made EPCOT Center work was a sense that future was going to be great and how truly small the world could be. EPCOT Center was able to balance education with entertainment in wonderful ways. Communicore was a fun place to spend some time and see things of the future that would one day be in our homes or lives. EPCOT Center was a special place that people dressed up to go and have dinner at. When I worked in monorails you would begin seeing them at 5pm. Shirts and ties and jackets, women in dresses. They would walk thru Future World to have a nice dinner in World Showcase.

During my last visit (my second this year) I noticed some changes that have been there for awhile but didnt seem to bother me before. We have talked about the wand over Spaceship Earth. I have always hated it but this trip I was looking at it from Japan and thought...the wand really cheapens a wonderful piece of architecture. And thats when I realised that each year EPCOT gets more Disneyfied and less special.

While I really do understand Disney's decision to add new attractions I realised this trip that the things added offer good entertainment but very little education, which was one of EPCOT's core values. What do we learn from Test Track or Mission:Space or Soarin? Nothing really. They are all fun but offer not much else. I find the post-show area of Mission:Space a waste of space.

At one time EPCOT saw its mission was to educate people. At one time there was a teachers center so that teachers could take the ideas of EPCOT to their classrooms. I believe that is long gone now.

Over in World Showcase I was disappointed in how many shops have been converted to Kid Stops or have nothing in them at all. But most of all there was just a rather lackluster selection of things to look at in most of the countries. Also disappointing is that the World Showcase attractions are exactly as they were at park opening. Rio del Tiempo, O Canada, Impressions of France are exactly the same and it shows. The American Adventure has added to the final film but besides that the American Adventure is the same. China saw a nice update of its movie a couple of years ago that was wonderful. At one time there was a real feeling in World Showcase of "Welcome to my country" but on our most recent trip we noticed fewer cast members and a rather blah feeling of us being there. They are just there to man the stores. Aukershus has been handed over to Disney and now offers a Princess lunch. Another place not to eat now and it really changed the feel of the Norway courtyard as dozens of parents clogged the courtyard with the daughters in princess costumes. No forgetting that your at Disney.

Another place I see the Disneyification of EPCOT is in its stores A good example is Mouse Gears. If you blind folded someone and took them there they couldnt really tell if they were in the World of Disney store or Mouse Gears or the Emporium. I could find NO EPCOT specific souveniers. What a shame.

I guess most of all I realised that like the Studios EPCOT has lost its central vision. Future World attractions are built for their thrill factor and World Showcase is frozen in time. My kids who are now 22, 20 and 16 have seen no major changes in World Showcase in their lifetime. As long as they can remember it looks exactly the same.

For me, the excitement of EPCOT Center has been lost. The wonder that EPCOT provided has been handed over to thrills, pin stations and a lack of need to educate people. It makes me truly sad to see a great theme park become so...blah.

 

Originally Posted By Jim_n_Ruth

I enjoyed your post, and on the whole, agree with you. Unfortunately, Disney has to keep up with the expectations & demands of the public in order to stay in the game. Thrill rides attract people. People spend money. It's a necessary business move. I personally don't care for them at age 53 but, I certainly won't condemn them either. Believe it or not, I loved Test Track. I'm bald, so I didn't have to worry about my hair being messed up! I found it to be an informative thrill ride. I got to see what only auto engineers see.

Your points are well taken, and certainly respected. I don't think the wand is a bad idea. I think they could have done a nicer job of it. It looks too rushed into. I think it was a major mistake to end the tapestry of nations parade. I LOVED it.

As far as Spaceship earth is concerned....they need to do something with the lobby at the end of thast great ride. To leave it in its current state is sad.

Thanks again for such a great post. It's nice to read good things.

 

Originally Posted By mstaft

SJHYM,
Another great post.
I havent been to WDW since 1999, but EPCOT Center has been my favorite park ever since I first experienced it in 1983. So much of what you said is true. There was a great sense of optimism, joy, and wonder, that I fear may now be lost as Disney loses its vision for this park.
That said, myabe the new vision is just dollar signs...
May it not be so!

 

Originally Posted By RobinsonCrusoeEsq

I always say that Eisner never "got" Epcot. One of his first official acts was inviting the characters to the park, which diluted the concept. Slightly, perhaps. But it started the ball rolling.

 

Originally Posted By SFH

I miss Horizons. That was one of my favorites. I also miss the old World of Motion and Journey Into Imagination. Those classics could have been kept and updated. Test Track could have been an addition, not a replacement.

It's beyond time that World Showcase get some more ride-through attractions.

SFH
"I want to the old Akershus!"

 

Originally Posted By beamerdog

Thank you for this post, SJHYM. I have felt this way for some time now. EPCOT still remains a favorite destination, but the original educational feel of the park has been lost, I feel forever.

 

Originally Posted By beamerdog

feel = fear

sorry.

 

Originally Posted By RoadTrip

That was a well written post, SJHYM, and I certainly respect your opinions. At the same time, my own opinions are considerably different.

I enjoy Epcot now more than ever. I also don't think the educational aspect has been lost.

What did Horizons show me that I didn't know before? Very little. Although it was my favorite Epcot attraction at the time, its main wow factor for me was the IMAX type film projection. IMAX is old news now, and the rest of the ride was largely stationary figures - very little in the way of true animatronics.

I find Mission Space is very educational in an experiential way. Now I've actually felt something very similar to what astronauts feel at lift off. How else could I ever have experienced something like that? Sure, you can read about the impact of G-forces at liftoff, but that is a whole different thing than actually feeling them yourself. I think Mission Space is an outstanding attraction.

World of Motion was cute but in my opinion not much else. I certainly don't remember it as being educational.

On the other hand, I find Test Track to be quite informative. I had never really known about the component testing that is shown in the queue area. It disappointments me that now they seem to have turned some of the demonstrations off, but I thought when TT first opened it was very well done. I've also found the demonstration of the difference between standard and anti-lock brakes to be pretty informative. It was something I was always curious about, but never really wanted to test in the family automobile.

I hear you on the way people’s dress has changed, but that certainly has nothing to do with Epcot. People used to get dressed up to take a trip on an airplane too. We’ve become a nation of casual dressers, and I’m very much OK with that. Especially in Florida weather.

Personally, I find World Showcase to be as interesting as it ever was. The Showcase educates you about the cultures of almost a dozen different nations through architecture, cuisine, shopping, and exhibits or films. Although the exhibits may not have changed much over the years; culture changes very slowly. I don't know that there is really that much new to report.

When you look in all the little nooks and crannies of the Showcase, you find exhibits/galleries in many of the countries that DO change periodically. There is a particularly good gallery at the far rear of the Japan pavilion that I never even realized existed until a couple of years ago. Every time I go to Epcot I notice things in the Showcase that I've never seen before. If you take time to get off the major pathways and really explore each country in detail, you can find much that is new or that you haven't noticed before.

The changes in Future World have brought new life to the area. I now actually understand what Disney is trying to do with Innoventions. I could never say that with Communicore, and could rarely say it about previous incarnations of Innoventions. I'm concerned about Wonders of Life being closed, but am hopeful that it may house a new attraction in the future also.

All things considered, I truly think Epcot is the best it has ever been.

 

Originally Posted By demderedoseguys

While Soarin' may not be educational, let's not forget that EPCOT is also about touching one's senses. To many who have never or will never go hang gliding, Soarin' fulfills that void.

Mission Space gives us an idea of what an astronaut feels upon blast off and in flight,which again, most of us will never experience.

Just because the rides are considered fun or thrilling does not make them any less educational than learning about the countries.

 

Originally Posted By Jim_n_Ruth

Just because the rides are considered fun or thrilling does not make them any less educational than learning about the countries.

Well put!

 

Originally Posted By Kimrue

I agree with MOST of what the OP had to say...I miss the old Journey into imagination, and horizons and world of motion. I still have this far fetched dream that someday they will add attractions back to future world so it won't be so "thrill park-ish"....after all, I don't think anybody ever died on horizons...but I'm still enchanted with world showcase...I MISS MISS MISS john from the pub in "england" but it's still awesome...

 

Originally Posted By mickey_ring

The great thing about early 80s Epcot Center was that it was sssso different than the MK. Annual family trips to WDW started again in '84 after last being there in '76. I was 19 and the MK was for kids.

Disneyfied is a good word for what was the Centorium. I don't need The World Of Disney store anyplace else than Downtown D. If it's Future World, let me take some of it home.

I have to confess that I still really dig the movies in World Showcase. I do look forward to them.

What bugs me more than the wand (reminds me of a Holiday Inn sign) is the real estate from the entrance to SSE. Since the Legacy slabs are there, it feels closed-in and uninviting. Past few years, there is never a CM to help locate a picture anyway.

 

Originally Posted By virk4

Very good thread. I'll be there in two weeks ans I will look at EPCOT a little more carefully.

 

Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney

SJHYM, all I can say is I agree 110% with your post.

You articulated all of why EPCOT Center was such a special place, and why it is less so now.

The 'Disneyfication' of it is definitely at the heart of the problem. It used to represent the best of DISNEY. A future of endless technological possibilites and peace and harmony amongst nations.

Now? Pins. Princess meals. Characters everywhere. Generic shops selling the same thing you can get in any shop at WDW.

In the 80s and into the 90s, EC felt so grand and inspiring. Now, it is an awkward mix of thrills, thrill-wannabes and staleness.

I remember someone posted on another thread about the park feeling smaller a while back and I thought 'That's crazy' but now there's a 'Honey, they Shrunk Epcot' vibe.

Everything seems smaller. Less of an experience. Instead of being able to spend three hours in Wonders of Life, it's shuttered. Instead of spending an hour in WoM, you can get a three-minute ride that is fun enough, but so what?
Mission Space offers a great thrill, and as Roadtrip pointed out, a chance to experience something similar to astronauts. But that's it. There's no Space Pavillion, like what was planned since the 1970s. Just a quickee and you exit thru a gift shop.

In the 1980s, I could spend a whole day in half of EC and not see/do/experience all that I wanted to.

Now everything just speaks of large space. Sure, it can be festive especially when they do Food and Wine.

But it's lacking a critical ingedient -- optimism. Instead, it seems to replicate the cynicism of the real world, from the empty shops that once had high-end merchandise unique to their country to the empty dining locations like the Odyssey and Sunshine Terrace (or whatever they renamed it) to the resturants that have been cheapened and blanded down to suit middle-American tastes to once grand attractions like the Living Seas with half the tank empty etc ...

I miss the real EPCOT Center.

 

Originally Posted By pheneix

SJHYM, I wholeheartedly agree with you, as I am someone who can never walk through Epcot without a small amount of heartache.

I will also forever stand by a set of simple facts that I think truly validate the mission of Epcot Center. Back in the late 80's/early 90's Epcot Center crammed 12-13 million guests a year through its gates. Last year (2004) Epcot barely squeezed in 9 million, and that was considered a blockbuster year by upper management.

 

Originally Posted By basas

<<I will also forever stand by a set of simple facts that I think truly validate the mission of Epcot Center. Back in the late 80's/early 90's Epcot Center crammed 12-13 million guests a year through its gates. Last year (2004) Epcot barely squeezed in 9 million, and that was considered a blockbuster year by upper management.>>

Keep in mind that it was because of those original attractions/80's attractions that Epcot's attendance fell in the first place. Let's at least be glad we haven't had to deal with some of the ideas that were thrown around from time to time. (Rainforest Rollercoaster, SSE into a RollerCoaster, WoL into Toy Story...and so it continues...)

 

Originally Posted By mrkthompsn

I have an idea that would change Future World into something incredible, amazing and ~useful~. It will give it a new meaning for the word "Future", and we'll be adding a letter 's' to the end of 'world'. It will be entertaining as well as - actually being educational -. Not just that, but it will be ~experimental~, and it will be a test of a new type of community.

The Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow will be back, and more meaningful that it was when the idea popped into Walt's head.

I'll be writing about it day-by-day in a blog.

(Now, if only I could hire HIRED!)

 

Originally Posted By crazyformickey

As for me I really enjoyed the original EPCOT. For my son our first visit 5 years ago he did care for EPCOT, our last trip we spent 2 days there. I see the whole need to update but it's the parents who spend the money it would be nice to keep some of our favorites.

 

Originally Posted By Witches of Morva

ORDDU: My sisters and I also agree with your view points, SJHYM, duckling. Far from 'keeping up with the demands of what the public really wants', current management is more interested in doing things on the cheap--anything to save themselves money--regardless of the results. The fact that EPCOT has become Epcot seems to say it all. The original meaning of the parks is slowly eroding away. No wonder attendance has been dropping.

ORWEN: How anyone could think the park is better now than ever is beyond us! Just like it is over at Disney M-G-M, good attractions are--for the most part--being replaced by inferior quality attractions. There are a few exceptions, but VERY few. It's so sad.

 

Originally Posted By jmuboy

I agree with much of what people have said about how EPCOT seems to have lost its heart. I can only hope the 25th bings some inspiring new changes. Upgraded SSE? New JII? A new WS attraction? I guess we'll see. For now we can look forward to the "The Animated Seas" - I'm holding my breath in hopes it will be done as well as the Land renovation was recently.