Originally Posted By wendebird I found an interesting article today at Forbes.com. <a href="http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/04/15/dont-go-college_cx_lh_06slate_0418skipcollege.html" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/technolo gy/2006/04/15/dont-go-college_cx_lh_06slate_0418skipcollege.html</a> I found it very interesting because it follows the line of Homeschooling. Kids/people will excel/learn what interests them. Also, $160,000 for an education. Yikes, I hate to think how much it'll be if my kids (9 & 7) decide to go.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Very interesting article! There's all sorts of ways to succeed in life, but, yep, motivation and interest are key!
Originally Posted By SuzieQ One thing it doesn't cover though, is that many employers will toss your resume if you don't have a degree. It doesn't matter how smart you are or if you are motivated. You could even be the most qualified individual for the job. But without the piece of paper, corporate policy won't allow you to set foot in the door. There are thousands of companies out there like this. When I was working, I was well over the halfway mark to six figures. I had worked my way up through the company to a Senior Auditor position (cost recovery auditing in heavy industry). I brought back over $1 million dollars of hard cash a year in contract mis-billings. However, I was denied a Manager's title because I don't have a degree (even though I was expected to perform at the same level, and taught classes on this type of auditing). When I return to work later this year, I will not be able to go back into this line because a minimum Bachelors and CPA is required to even have a resume looked at. I will probably have to start back at about half my previous income and work my way up - or spend $20,000 to finish school through a quickie degree program.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I took the time to read this article and to look at the 5 reasons NOT to attend college. It was interesting however: 1.) They toss out the figure of THE MOST EXPENSIVE college education you can pay for...Princeton, Harvard, and so on. MOST colleges are FAR less expensive. 2.) Two, I don't follow how home-schooling is related to this article. I must have missed that somewhere, but anyway... 3.) Let us NOT compare the top home schooled kids who do not go to college with the average kids that do go to college. NO. Let us compare the top 10% of Princeton graduates with the top 10% of non college educated home schooled kids <--- not sure how you would get this figure, I guess through standardized testing somehow. Comparing the cream of the crop of both categories, would certainly give us a much more reliable result, and most certainly would pertain to our "for or against" argument. In fact, even though the Forbes article uses Princeton as a cost example, I would be willing to substitute Princeton grads for just the top ten percent of ALL colleges, vs. the top ten % of non college educated home schooled kids. How? We see who they are, we track them for ten years and at the end of the ten years we compare incomes and net worth. I think the results would be fairly predictable.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad The bottom line here is: College or no college, life is going to be what YOU MAKE of it. Most in the USA today, pretty much have the same opportunity, but it's what we do WITH that opportunity that makes the difference. Home school, or private school, or public school... the cream will rise to the top 99 out of 100 times.
Originally Posted By MomofPrincess >> One thing it doesn't cover though, is that many employers will toss your resume if you don't have a degree. It doesn't matter how smart you are or if you are motivated. You could even be the most qualified individual for the job. But without the piece of paper, corporate policy won't allow you to set foot in the door. << Totally agree. I work in place full of degreed folks, and I can tell you right now that I could spent 9 hours a day working side by side with them (and some non-degreed technicians DO), for my entire career, and I would *never* make even close to what they do until I could produce a diploma. I'm intelligent, I was in the gifted program in school, yet without that degree, it means very little. Anyway, the article was interesting and made some great points, but I still say a college education is the way to go.
Originally Posted By wendebird >>I found it very interesting because it follows the line of Homeschooling. Kids/people will excel/learn what interests them.<< >>2.) Two, I don't follow how home-schooling is related to this article. I must have missed that somewhere, but anyway...<< I'm sorry DVC Dad, I didn't mean to mislead you. It doesn't say anything in the article about homeschooling. That was a person opinion of mine. I didn't want to just give a link without posting some sort of personal opinion. Not that anyone on LP ever does that.
Originally Posted By DlandJB A college degree tells an employer that you have finished a huge hurtle, that you are capable of following through from start to finish and that you have a serious interest in your own future ambitions -- all that before they even lay eyes on you. If the degree fits the position, all the better. There are certainly jobs to be had that will start out well for someone without a degree, but it is rare to be able to move too far ahead in the future without the degree. As other people have pointed out, it can sabatoge them not to have it. You don't have to go to Harvard to get a decent education. Most state colleges and universities have good programs. You can also go ROTC or through other programs that will pay your way if you give something back. there are also a myriad of scholarship opportunities. I'm not saying it should be this way, but that is the way it is.
Originally Posted By SuzieQ I totally disagree with your second paragraph DlandJB. Even with the example of me. Look at the tech industry. It's one of the highest paying industries and you do NOT need to have a degree. In fact, many of the best do not. Kids can graduate from my son's high school Cisco certified. In certain industries/fields, a technical school gets a person further than a 4 year degree, and higher pay.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ^^^..... I agree with this that It and Tech fields need no degree, however being the victim of a couple of hapless and ill qualified "IT GUYS" I think that industry SHOULD begin to raise the bar on it's educational requirements. It is hard to argue this: I believe that there are MANY MANY people in the IT field that have no business there. They know just enough to get them into trouble and to cost their clients a lot of money down the drain. One way that industry is culling the bad and regulating itself is the shift toward contract work. I think in the future we will see this increase until the market brings a stability into that field. In short, the IT and tech people who have no degree had better "get while the gettin' is good," becuase change is on the horizon.
Originally Posted By SuzieQ LOL DVC_dad. I think we're talking about totally different kinds of tech jobs. I'm talking database designers, etc. that are the workings of the dot.com industry.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe In 30 years of insurance--Guess how many people have asked if I have a degree? Not ONE in 30 years! I wish they would ask! My wife never went to college as she married me instead and NO ONE has asked her either. I guess sales of any kind may be the way to go if you DON'T want to go to college and still have unlimited potential.
Originally Posted By SuzieQ LOL, I'd agree. I worked in the regional office of an insurance company for a number of years. Not one of the agents had a degree and they made darn'd fine livings.
Originally Posted By SuzieQ If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bull....
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I'm a college grad, as is my wife. My parents were college grads, and also my sister and brother. In fact, most of the folks in my extended family are/were college grads. That said, I'm not convinced that everyone needs a college degree to succeed in life. I look back at my experiences and sometimes wish I had been exposed more to the trades. I would have loved to have been more involved with construction or electrical or even plumbing. Alas, where I went to High School, Wood Shop and Metal Shop and Auto Shop were where all the 'dumb' guys were. It seems that we've become a bit obsessed with 'getting our kids through college.' And perhaps we should. I just wonder if there other routes in life other than 'The Corporate World.'
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Oh ok SuzieQ, I got 'cha. Goes to show how little I know about the industry at a whole. Get this, I have a friend who didn't go to college, does all that programming stuff for some company, made $120K last year. That ain't too bad.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Yes, I am very much obsessed with getting my kids through college. I'll admit it.
Originally Posted By cape cod joe Well said Jim paricularly since our son has a singular learning disability? We're not quite sure yet. I hate for him to think he has to go to college to succeed even though I've been doing the inculcating drum beating of "no college and you'll be flipping burgers at disney" routine. I realize that if that possibility does come to fruition, he might think Dad would think that he is a failure, which would be the furthest thing from the truth. Any job openings DVC? I can't even program the tv but is that requisite for the job?
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Oh wait, I had to come back to this thread one last time to post this last thought. No matter what you do, college or not. It is hard to become wealthy working for someone other than yourself. Oh you can become rich. But I am talking about wealth. Wealth as in: Sure Shaq is a very rich basketball player, but what about the guy that signs Shaq's check? I guess after all the dust clears, I will have to ultimately agree with the people who don't have college degrees (for they are the ones always talking about not needing one) and say, it's more about your mindset, about your entrepreneurial spirit than it is college. No you don't have to get a degree to be successful.
