Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yuck. As to what Disney might have done with this land... Letting trees just GROW isn't a terrible idea.>> Gee, what a simple, novel and intelligent idea. I find it yet another sad sign of the state of the Disney 'fan' community that no one has really pointed out that this 'development' was exactly the type of thing that Walt built WDW to avoid ... to get away from. Bringing the real world onto Disney Property, even if it is a Subway or Fairfield Inn that the Mouse will push some basic design rules on, is a horrible idea. What's even worse is no one working for WDW at the exec levels seems to grasp that land in and of itself has so much intrinsic value, 'even' when left in its natural state or as orange groves, which are on parts of this parcel. It creates a buffer from civilization. It creates areas for the native wildlife to live. It just makes WDW a nicer, greener place. But, again, this short-sighted morons are just looking for a quick real estate sale. They aren't looking big picture ... much like when they sold off the Newport Beach DVC land ... so it could become the crown jewel of Marriott Vacation Club ... or when they decided to pass on the Anaheim land where Garden Walk mall is now being opened in phases. They only think right now. They have no vision and no creativity ... and that in my mind means they have no right in any leadership role. I'd drone on, but my Disney Exec Stalker in Training (your next target is the idiot who ruined the menu at The Mara) MPierce, has done a great job of summing it all up, so I'll just quote him in case any of you ignore him because he's a crazy right wing redneck: <<How in the world can Disney think that this is a good idea. Slowly, but surely they are draining every bit of Magic out of WDW. Why don't they put in a low income housing project or maybe a couple of half-way houses. I use to go to WDW to get away from the ordinary, everyday way of life, not to see strip centers, and value motels. I thought the whole concept behind WDW was seperation from the outside world. >>
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Publix makes nice sandwiches. It'd be great to drop by in the morning and pick up a few for the family to eat for lunch while in the parks. Wouldn't have to drop so much money on cash whales like Tutto Italia.>> You know what? This is a perfect example of why this idea sucks. I can walk from my home to two Publix (although one is 2.5 miles away). Why on earth do I want my local supermarket being brought onto Disney property? How does that improve the magic? How does that add to my vacation experience? How does it have anything at all to do with what Disney is supposed to be about? It's just really sickening. And guess what? To those who would like to grab a Publix sandwich, there are at least 3-4 locations just off Disney property in all directions. Silly me, I thought Disney was about transporting you away and immersing you in the feel of different times and places ... I guess I didn't realize that one of those times and places that people really want more of is 'Central Florida 2007.'
Originally Posted By magnet >>>You know what? This is a perfect example of why this idea sucks.<<< My point too.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Wasn't sure if you were serious or not, but I thought it really hit the nail on the head as to why this deal reeks worse than the trash barrels at Phil Holmes' estate.
Originally Posted By dshyates I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Disney turns over operation of their existing resorts to outside vendors and the only Disney properties would be DVC. Hyatt's Polynesian Resort at Walt Dsiney World. Disney is doing such a piss poor job with service from the Bevis and Buttheads they have been hiring, I wouldn't mind a Marriott manager running the Deluxes.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^They certainly reached a nadir a few years back, but they are improving again. But, overall, I agree. The GM of a typical airport Hilton does a better job than the typical WDW counterpart. And that's just pathetic. But I also don't see Disney selling off the hotels. They are cash cows when the economy is doing well (and even now when it's tanking, but the Europeans are gladly filling them). Eisner contemplated doing so once, but realized what a mistake it would be. I agree. And, FWIW, Disney is expandng its empire with a Hotel/DVC combo in Hawaii, which is the first of many.
Originally Posted By MPierce I'm just afraid Disney is headed down the path of entirely losing it's identity. Does anyone here go to WDW because it is common, and ordinary. I don't want the real world to start infringing on to property owned by Disney. I'm just afraid this is the begining of massive planned developments. One of the things I always loved about WDW was there was so much undeveloped land. Tell me people didn't get a kick out of riding the bus over to one of the parks, and seeing deer, and other wild life. Does anybody here want a strip like in Las Vegas from one end of WDW to the other. I know some people are OK with this idea, but it's just not Disney to me. As Spirit pointed out, Walt Disney did not purchase so much land in Florida so he could be a real-estate speculator or broker. He did not want to build Stop 'n Go's, and Motel 6's to get the value minded people in Disneland. He wanted family oriented quality entertainment. Quality is never cheap, however when you get quality it then becomes a value.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^ I was gonna jump into this also - but couldn't say it much better than the above post -- what a foray into commonness by a place created to be special..... really lousy
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Guys, Walt Disney himself would have promoted this. He certainly wanted a project of this type built into his original EPCOT city plan. It would have just had discount style and grocery shoppping. It would have had full blown industrial park. This project conforms to Walt's EPCOT plan. When I'm at Disney for a week at a time, I get sick of all the restaraunts. The closest normal grocery store is a two hour trip out and in from your hotel door. What a pain. A grocery store on the property would be a blessing. Watch them extend the monorail to this development. Now there would be a travesty.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's 2 hours to Goodings ? And the only rooms set up to have people be able to eat are DVC units - and there are small general stores with basics for those - so I seem to be missing the point. If you are on site - staying in a 300 sq ft hotel room - with no cooking capability and no refrig...what is the grocery store going to do again ? and for me, I guess when I am there 7 - 10 days - I look forward to the restaurants as part of my vacation experience. If I want something lighter there is Earl of Sandwhich and numerous food courts -- I also wonder about " Walt's vision " with this addition. Walt wanted to build WDW away from the clutter that was around DL - not sure why he would want to build the same in Florida.
Originally Posted By dshyates I don't believe Walt minded Disney development, just the development of others with less care for atmosphere. I think we will have to see how this area turns out to really determine its worth. I hope they learn from some of the mistakes at DtD Otown. Learned from the success of DtD Anaheim. My guess is that the hotels will be mostly the suites (Holiday Inn Family Suites, Springhill Suites, Embassy Suites) type hotels. Most will have fridge/micro units. Some with limited/full kitchen. The access to a close grocery facility will make staying at the "value" chain hotels will be made even economical by being able to have meals in the room. As DVC DAD will tell you. If you have 3 or more kids staying at Disney is very expensive because of the need for multiple rooms or a villa. But if you can get a suite for 6 for $89 a night with any type of kitchen and a living room style sitting area and still be in a Disney controlled environment. I don't see a problem. Disney has priced a lot of families out of the multiple room scenario. And they didn't build many/any cheap family suites (pop century experiment noted. This development is extremely isolated on property, and will take effort to even lay eyes on its ugly blight. So like AGW if you chose not to take advantage of it, don't. If your staying at the Grand Floridian, I don't see that unless you go out to it specifically its existence will be negligible.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 My problem is this shouldn't exist. Period. Not whether it affects me directly. Just having it exist (much like FOX News) lowers my quality of life, whether I experience it or not.
Originally Posted By MPierce I can understand people wanting larger, and cheaper rooms. I can even understand people wanting a grocery store. I'm just saying all of that is offered right off property. Disney theme parks should be something special. I don't go there to grocery shop or do my laundry or participate in any of the things I do the rest of the year. I go there to relax, and forget all my other problems. I want to dine out every meal, I want to be pampered. That's why I'm willing to pay the bucks for the trip. It just seems like Disney, in search of one more dollar is cheapening the experience rather than trying to enhance it.
Originally Posted By dshyates "I want to be pampered. That's why I'm willing to pay the bucks for the trip." Then be happy and rejoice they are building a outsourced deluxe for you. I'm sure The Four Seasons will pamper your bottom off. I personally think the Disney does value resorts miserably. I will never stay in an All-Star. When for the same or less I can stay in a Courtyard with better service a MUCH less frenetic and chaotic atmosphere. The only time I stay in a Disney property is when I can afford a deluxe and have even been disappointed with the service there recently. I personally will welcome this addition. I am also assuming they will be hotels like Springhill, Courtyard, Embassy Suites type places. if it truly is Motel 6 and white castle I won't have much use for them. But I really hate the all stars and will stay off property every time if its not the deluxes. I've seen me do it. It just blows me away at how people will settle for lower quality simply because its Disney. I don't care as long as its nice. The all-stars aren't nice. The Moderates are ok. But for moderate prices you can stay at a marriott resort not 2 miles away. And its MUCH nicer than the moderates. You guys claim that by bringing a Fairfield on property is lowering the quality of Disney World. Have you actually been to one of the all stars. Its like they attached rooms to the food court at the cheap mall during Christmas week. I would rather spoon feed myself mayonnaise.
Originally Posted By kennect I think there is a little more to this than meets the eye...Yes, it is Disney property but that piece of land butts up to the turnpike....This developement will suck in Disney visitors along with other folks that never had a thought of visiting Disney...Turnpike customers that want a break on their drive going elsewhere....I have done the Beltway drive and I will say a public retail district there won't affect a visit to WDW....It is so far removed I couldn't make a connection between the two...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Then be happy and rejoice they are building a outsourced deluxe for you. I'm sure The Four Seasons will pamper your bottom off.>> I'm not thrilled about that one. But I'll try it ... and I doubt I'll be disappointed. <<I personally think the Disney does value resorts miserably. I will never stay in an All-Star. When for the same or less I can stay in a Courtyard with better service a MUCH less frenetic and chaotic atmosphere.>> This is tougher. I do agree with you in large part. The All Stars/POP are very large, veru crowded, very noisy motels. They get some points for location. They get some for the small Disney touches. They get some for the benefits (like transport and EMH's provided). That said, when they use the word 'resort' I laugh very heartily because I know why they use it. To food people. Disney's All Star Movies Motel just sounds so ... so ... basic ... which is what you're getting anyway. If you can get a local Courtyard for the same or less, you'd be foolish or blinded by pixie dust to stay at one of Disney's motels. That said when I can get a room for $49 at one, I find it to be a very good deal. <<The only time I stay in a Disney property is when I can afford a deluxe and have even been disappointed with the service there recently.>> You're not alone, although I believe things are slowly getting better. <<I personally will welcome this addition. I am also assuming they will be hotels like Springhill, Courtyard, Embassy Suites type places. if it truly is Motel 6 and white castle I won't have much use for them.>> See, I wouldn't assume that. The typical Embassy Suites runs well over $100 (often closer to $150-200) a night. It also would take away from nightly rentals at DVC resorts like SS and OKW that always have a fair amount of vacancies (actually huge # at SS). Even SpringHill and Courtyard's typically charge in the $100 (or more) range. The people that Disney is supposedly going after with this are those who can't even afford a Disney value motel. If you can't afford $49-115 for one of those, what can you afford? $39.99? That's Sleep Inn, Motel 6 type of places. <<But I really hate the all stars and will stay off property every time if its not the deluxes. I've seen me do it. It just blows me away at how people will settle for lower quality simply because its Disney.>> See any of my thousands of posts about folks accepting far less at Disney's parks and resorts because the name is on them. <<I don't care as long as its nice. The all-stars aren't nice. The Moderates are ok. But for moderate prices you can stay at a marriott resort not 2 miles away. And its MUCH nicer than the moderates. You guys claim that by bringing a Fairfield on property is lowering the quality of Disney World. Have you actually been to one of the all stars. Its like they attached rooms to the food court at the cheap mall during Christmas week. I would rather spoon feed myself mayonnaise.>> So how do you really feel? I understand exactly the point you're making, but it doesn't change my POV one bit. This type of development was exactly what Walt wanted far away. It's bad enough, through poor planning, you can see 7-11s and McDonald's and outside timeshares on 192 from DAK Lodge. But now to bring this crap in? Sorry, but it has no place at WDW. Leave it, and the $$$, on 192. The Mouse doesn't need every penny that comes into central Fla. FWIW, I also wish the value motels had never been built because even though they have their nice points (Music and POP especially), they are loud, garrish and tacky. How low do we go? Apparently, someone's got the limbo stick at TDO.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think there is a little more to this than meets the eye...Yes, it is Disney property but that piece of land butts up to the turnpike....This developement will suck in Disney visitors along with other folks that never had a thought of visiting Disney...Turnpike customers that want a break on their drive going elsewhere.>> This development isn't going to get people to stop. Most of the Beltway users are locals, not tourists. I don't think they'll suddenly feel the urge to buy a $5 latte at a Disney Starbucks (up $1.25 to pay Disney for using its land) when they can stop at their regular one. I don't see CMs stopping at a McDonald's there when they can go to the one on 192 that will have a dollar menu. And it certainly won't get tourists who suddenly drive by and think 'gee, I didn't realize all of this urban sprawl was at WDW ... let's all go to Epcot for the day!' <<...I have done the Beltway drive and I will say a public retail district there won't affect a visit to WDW....It is so far removed I couldn't make a connection between the two...>> That's just the point. Right now, it is removed. If they didn't build the road through, it would have been completely removed. It isn't anymore. It's right by the backside of DAK. It's next to the tree farm. Eventually, it drops you off at Coronado Springs. What was a great land greenbelt buffer will now have loads of cars and crappy outside vendors on property. There is no rational upside to this unless you just support Disney grabbing everu penny it can. because ultimately that's why this was even conceived of. Much like why Disney decided on building Celebration ... what a waste of land.
Originally Posted By dshyates "See, I wouldn't assume that. The typical Embassy Suites runs well over $100 (often closer to $150-200) a night. It also would take away from nightly rentals at DVC resorts like SS and OKW that always have a fair amount of vacancies (actually huge # at SS). Even SpringHill and Courtyard's typically charge in the $100 (or more) range. The people that Disney is supposedly going after with this are those who can't even afford a Disney value motel. If you can't afford $49-115 for one of those, what can you afford? $39.99? That's Sleep Inn, Motel 6 type of places." See these rates hold true for most places but not Orlando. This August you could get a room at the Ritz Carlton for $199 a night. Anywhere else it would have been no less than $275. With the complex they have, most places more like $325. The rack rate in otown is out of sync with the rest of the country. Where else can you get a room at a Quality Inn for $39.00 a night. I live in BFE, WV and the rooms at the interstate exit run no less that $64.00 at the Hampton Inn. As a Marriott Rewards member we stay at a lot of Courtyards, Fairfields, Springhill, and Residence Inns It is not uncommon to find one in the $75-$95 range (Not Residence they are more expensive), which is in the rack rate range of the all stars and cheaper than the moderates. If they put a Courtyard in walking distance of a DtD type complex, and I can get a room there cheaper than a moderate then that is where I'll be.
