Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK from The Place Where Dreams Come True and Magic Lives, especially during The Year(s) of a (two) Million Dreams and coming soon: What Will YOU Celebrate? is the latest marketing/merchandising tagline ... Four Parks One World branding on merchandise and ads. This just continues the marketing message that the individual parks (and their levels of freshness and quality) don't really matter so much as the whole of WDW. Yet after visiting and seeing very little new ... and no new attraction construction (AI Theater nonwithstanding) going on, one must wonder if the shirts and hats and glasses should say 'One Stale World.' Sea World and Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure all have major attractions under construction and others in the pipeline. WDW, which is less than three years away from another milestone B-Day, has ... well ... uhm ... ah ...plenty of unsold DVC inventory either completed (Saratoga Springs) and unsold or under construction (DAK Lodge Villas, Bay Lake Tower, Treehouses at SS) and unsold. It is a whole lot harder for Disney to weather a recession (bordering on depression for many Americans) than Universal or Busch because Disney has over 25,000 rooms and timeshares to fill nightly. In other words, Disney's irresponsible growth since the mid-90s has put it in a very difficult position to get through tough economic times. And with all the cutbacks that started about the time Frank Wells was buried, one must wonder what is left to cut? It all doesn't leave a lot of hope for new and great things in WDW's theme parks in the future at all. But I am sure visionaries like Inoverherheadmeg Crofton, Erin Wallace, Al Weiss, Phil 'Magic Man' Holmes and company can keep the cash flowing while delivering magical WDW vacations to millions. There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days ... and I doubt we're going to see the Imagineering Blue Sky Verandah opening in Adventureland soon ... or perhaps the Imagineering Blue Sky Wonders of the Future pavilion at Epcot ... or the Imagineering Blue Sky Soundstage at The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios or ... you get the idea. Oh, I guess we can all look forward to the new Hall of Presidents coming in spring 2009 ... course they didn't really have much choice in that one, did they? Stale Mountain's redo? Well, you haven't heard much about that one, have you? Neither have I ...
Originally Posted By MPierce >> This just continues the marketing message that the individual parks (and their levels of freshness and quality) don't really matter so much as the whole of WDW. << Sadly they have taken that stance. I think they have been relying on their past reputation rather than creating a new high for excellence in the industry. I'm sure they think enough people will respond to their present day offerings as they have in the past. They seem to be more than willing to increase prices while providing less entertainment, with a diminishment in quality. I for one would be willing to overlook the lack of major new rides for the immediate time being, if they would only strive for excellence in maintainence, and cleanliness. >> But I am sure visionaries like Inoverherheadmeg Crofton, Erin Wallace, Al Weiss, Phil 'Magic Man' Holmes and company can keep the cash flowing while delivering magical WDW vacations to millions. << I am Certain that is what they believe. Only time will tell if they are right. I believe their philosophy isn't correct. >> There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days << You my friend or definetly experiencing burn-out right now. Even though you said for the most part you had an enjoyable time. Sometimes when you visit the parks to often it can have a negative effect over all.Don't read me wrong here, your concerns are correct. They have just become more magnified since your visit to HKDL. Hang in there with me for a little while, while I play Freud. While in Hong Kong you experienced that Magical Feeling once again at a Disney Park. You even were border line in love this park even though so many have found it lacking. You even freely admitted that the park was a cookie-cutter pop-out of other parks, but it didn't matter. You still manage to feel that Magic. That has been what seems to continue to sustain WDW for now. Who knows how long people will continue to feel the Magic as they tighten up the purse strings. Only time will tell.
Originally Posted By DisWorldly Jim Hill claims that Jay did a survey asking how long they could go without adding any major new attractions at WDW before attendance will drop. It reportedly said 6 years!! I think that with the ever softening economy (recession? depression?), Jay, Al and company need to rethink their priorities. I mean why would a family want to visit all of the new DVCs at WDW if they don't have major new attractions to entertain them? Now is the time for expansion at the parks, in order to keep guests returning. I'm sorry, a new celebration each year just doesn't do the trick for me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Sadly they have taken that stance. I think they have been relying on their past reputation rather than creating a new high for excellence in the industry.>> That is definitely the case. It is all about resting on their laurels and living on their reputation in Florida. Hell, how many times have you watched them show footage on commercials or promo DVDs etc ... where you just know it was filmed back in 1993? You know back when they had thin CMs and trees in the MK and near pristine hotel lobbies? <<I'm sure they think enough people will respond to their present day offerings as they have in the past. They seem to be more than willing to increase prices while providing less entertainment, with a diminishment in quality. I for one would be willing to overlook the lack of major new rides for the immediate time being, if they would only strive for excellence in maintainence, and cleanliness.>> Me too. I have to tell you I find it troubling that I can walk through Sea World and the walkways are pristine with no gum splotches or filth from food carts and every landscaped bed is perfectly manicured with trees and flowers (no bags of wood chips thrown around a la Disney). It's amazing how far Disney's standards have dropped and how far Disney will go to ignore or lie about what it is doing to simply improve the bottom line. Maybe they should have thought about that before they added the last 10,000 rooms. Typhoon Lagoon closed last week for what is a very extended five-month closure (and there's rumors that it could well be closed right through spring break) and I get the feeling Disney is relieved it can get by shuttering the place. >> There just isn't much to get excited about when it comes to WDW these days << <<You my friend or definetly experiencing burn-out right now. Even though you said for the most part you had an enjoyable time. Sometimes when you visit the parks to often it can have a negative effect over all.>> I don't really agree. I went six months without visiting WDW, which may not seem like much for most folks but is an eternity for me. I did have an enjoyable time. Absolutely. But again, it was largely the little things (and those aren't what bring most folks to WDW). I am not burned out on WDW. I am burned out on WDW managment's burned earth (and Disney standards) style of operating the place. <<Don't read me wrong here, your concerns are correct. They have just become more magnified since your visit to HKDL. Hang in there with me for a little while, while I play Freud. While in Hong Kong you experienced that Magical Feeling once again at a Disney Park. You even were border line in love this park even though so many have found it lacking. You even freely admitted that the park was a cookie-cutter pop-out of other parks, but it didn't matter. You still manage to feel that Magic. That has been what seems to continue to sustain WDW for now. Who knows how long people will continue to feel the Magic as they tighten up the purse strings. Only time will tell.>> I think you are largely right. I did feel magic in HK. And I certainly felt it in Anaheim. At WDW ... well, I felt a palpable feeling of 'Oh (expletive deleted) things are really not magical here' ... CMs (internationals excepted) were very on edge (as they should be with rumors of impending layoffs). I was yelled at by more than one and I would have complained but didn't feel it was worth my time. The parks felt less crowded (but not empty by any stretch) yet you could tell they weren't being kept as clean as they should have been (DAK was particularly bad). I saw more examples of bad show than I have in a long time from managers/leads in street clothes (something that appears unique to Orlando) to attractions being loaded and unloaded in haphazard ways that resulted in backups and endings being ruined to Halloween decorations in MK already looking faded and old. I bet that many people wouldn't notice or think anything of many of the things I noticed, but that doesn't make my concerns any less valid. It just shows that sadly many people have no idea just how WDW used to be run and that many people are oblivious to the World around them. But again, these are things I didn't experience/notice in either HK or Anaheim, so I do believe that again WDW's management actively tries to put one over on their tourist clientele feeling they just don't know any better. I'm toying with the idea of a long weekend in December at WDW because I like the parks at the holidays, but I also don't feel a strong pull to make it happen.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Jim Hill claims that Jay did a survey asking how long they could go without adding any major new attractions at WDW before attendance will drop. It reportedly said 6 years!!>> I have no idea if this is true, but when did the last true E-Ticket open in the MK? (1992 for those playing at home) <<I think that with the ever softening economy (recession? depression?), Jay, Al and company need to rethink their priorities. I mean why would a family want to visit all of the new DVCs at WDW if they don't have major new attractions to entertain them?>> Simple. They spent at least $17,000 (???) on a DVC 'investment' ... they are trapped. They are going to WDW no matter what. And Bob, Jay, Al and Co all know this. <<Now is the time for expansion at the parks, in order to keep guests returning. I'm sorry, a new celebration each year just doesn't do the trick for me. >> WHAT WILL YOU CELEBRATE?
Originally Posted By barboy ///but when did the last true E-Ticket open in the MK? (1992 for those playing at home)/// I'd say Alien Encounter was an 'E'--- not that I liked it so much but just going by its position as the 'centerpiece' to the new Tomorrowland of '95
Originally Posted By barboy ///Typhoon Lagoon closed last week for what is a very extended five-month closure (and there's rumors that it could well be closed right through spring break)/// If it does stay closed(not because of maintenace/workings) over spring break then call the media because that would be the most compelling indicator of a complete global RECESSION.
Originally Posted By barboy ///I was yelled at by more than one(cast member)/// What in the world would cause 2 or more CM's to yell at you? I am most curious about this because out of all my trips to the 'World' I've never seen CM's yell out in a nasty way to guests. I've seen disinterest in their roles, sloppiness in dress, a touch of sarcasm in tone and a lack of smiles sometimes but never yelling.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'd say Alien Encounter was an 'E'--- not that I liked it so much but just going by its position as the 'centerpiece' to the new Tomorrowland of '95>> I'd disagree. I put it squarely in the 'D' ticket category, although it certainly was worlds better than SGE, which I was subjected to last week and is in awful shape (the cannons don't work right or light up when they fire ... the seats all have mildew and rot on top of them). ///Typhoon Lagoon closed last week for what is a very extended five-month closure (and there's rumors that it could well be closed right through spring break)/// <<If it does stay closed(not because of maintenace/workings) over spring break then call the media because that would be the most compelling indicator of a complete global RECESSION.>> Well, Disney would never say that's why it was staying closed. They'd just say the rehab work was taking longer or they'd even spin it that they were doing some extra magic ... like adding a new churro hut! <<What in the world would cause 2 or more CM's to yell at you? >> My spirited reputation, perhaps? (that was a joke for those of you who lack the sense of humor). <<I am most curious about this because out of all my trips to the 'World' I've never seen CM's yell out in a nasty way to guests. I've seen disinterest in their roles, sloppiness in dress, a touch of sarcasm in tone and a lack of smiles sometimes but never yelling.>> Perhaps, yell wasn't the right term ... bark might be better. In the queue for Buzz where the FP and standby meet, I had a 20-something CM bark at me asking where my party ended. I didn't hear him the first time he asked as it was loud and he wasn't facing me. And he responded by yelling (yeah, that is the right word, scream might be another good word) WHO?!?, WHO?!??!, WHO??!? ... I felt like telling him to go (blank) himself. Then on the same attraction, different CM, the dude yelled at everyone to GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT as the Omnimovers reached unload. No, he wasn't in some lame character either. I also got yelled at on Dinosaur when my sunglasses (not the cheap Dollar Store variety either, but the few hundred dollar designer deal) got entangled in the webbing of the pouches to store your items. I told the CMs of the problem and instead of shining their flashlights on the problem, they looked clueless and ordered me to get out ... I refused and we wound up riding again (sorry to the people trapped on my right!) ... then the woman next to me shown her cell phone light and I was immediately able to correct the problem. I have the feeling they would have just had me ride all day until close before actually attempting to solve the problem. There was just a whole lot of nasty, short tempered, unmagical CMs ...they were the minority by far, but it only takes one to ruin a visit and I had far more than one nasty encounter. Hell, my first CM encounter set the tone when I arrived at the Beach Club to meet friends for ice cream at Beaches and Cream and was told 'you can't park here.' I said I was dining there and was told 'sorry, we restrict parking from time to time' ... the lot was empty btw and he had a clipboard with 'restricted parking until No. 9th -- end of Food and Wine Fest -- on it' ... so I asked him if they were not allowing anyone to dine, shop or visit there and he told me I could park at EPCOT or the Disney-MGM Studios (someone should tell him that park no longer exists) ... I then explained that would entail me paying $12 to park (left out the AP detail) and he was quite beligerent and ordered me to turn around ... so I did ... and left, went to the Boardwalk and parked without difficulty and decided to get ice cream at the Dolphin instead since Disney did nothing to earn a penny of my business ... oh and then I left my car in their near empty lot and went to Epcot for the evening! It did set the tone and not in a good way.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Simple. They spent at least $17,000 (???) on a DVC 'investment' ... they are trapped. They are going to WDW no matter what. And Bob, Jay, Al and Co all know this. << That is probably true for the majority of people, but I feel there will be some fallout from the slow economy. The poor folks that lose their jobs won't be able to afford to make the trip, and sadly some might not even be able to afford their maintainence fees. I do not feel sales in the DVC can maintain a brisk pace. With Hedge Funds, and Speculators allowed such a free hand in the market, recovery will be slow. That is way to much money for a long term investment with such an uncertain economic future. Demand will slow down while they still have so many new units to offer.
Originally Posted By MPierce I have to say each and every thing you brought up Spirit, should be deemed unacceptable by Disney Management. Those would certainly be things to take the shine off of any magical trip for me. I am worried (really I am). I've noticed more, and more similar complaints on just about every forum. This, I'm afraid, is a dangerous trend that if allowed to continue will become the norm. While I'm sure most people would agree, the vast majority of CM's do an exceptional job, there is no room for rudeness at WDW. The CM's are the backbone of WDW, and they can certainly make or break a vacation. I remember one vacation there was a security guard at the gate of the Wlderness Lodge, her name was Kat. everytime one of the busses departed or arrived she would be outside waving. You would have thought this woman was on a float in the MK. You always knew when she was on duty, she would be outside waving My wife made a trip out to the guard shack to get her name so we could send a complimentary note to WDW guest services. I couldn't tell you about anything else note worthy on that trip. I'm sure we had a good time, and that one really friendly gesture by a cast member really enhanced it. We haven't seen her since, and were not able to find out what happen to her. I just wish somebody would slap some sense into Disney management, and get them to weed out the bad CM.s and make sure all the remaining CM's are well trained. Now is the time to get all of Disney standards up to what they should be at WDW.
Originally Posted By barboy ///I put it(Alien Encounter) squarely in the 'D' ticket category/// That's fair to say.... meaning I can see your justification. Now, if you had called it a 'B' or 'C' experience then I'd have no choice but to debate that until the sun goes down. ///I refused(to exit the 'Time Rover') and we wound up riding again/// I'll have to remember that trick--- getting glasses entangled in the cargo net--- for next trip so I can ride two consecutive times ///he told me I could park at EPCOT or the Disney-MGM Studios/// What a punk thing to say to a guest.....as if those places are free and close by. Service in the US sucks so royally!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Service in the US sucks so royally! << That seems to have become the norm nowdays. If you reeive exceptional service today you become excited. Instead of demanding the best we have settled for mediocrity. I don't know if the good old days were any better, but they sure seemed to be. America has slipped into a just get by mode, and we are not alone. You must be wealthy or well connected to receive exceptional services in much of the rest of the world also. Though I am not a world travler I have both friends, and family that do travel extensively. Everyone of them agree that service for the most part improves with smaller, and more rural communities. This holds up for most places. I just wonder if people in larger cities have forgotten how to be friendly, and civil to strangers?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have to say each and every thing you brought up Spirit, should be deemed unacceptable by Disney Management. Those would certainly be things to take the shine off of any magical trip for me.>> I still enjoyed myself, dear minion. Really! It's just if that stuff happens to me, it happens to others as well. Maybe newbies. It's not the way to impress guests and keep customers. I honestly was thinking 'what will those crazy online pals of mine think?' as I was arguing with the security guard at the Beach Club. Are they so afraid of losing parking revenue by locals during the Food and Wine Fest that their policy is to be nasty to people who try and park at the Epcot Resorts ... even those who intend to spend their money at said resorts? I really saw the situation escalating and since I have some 'fans' at Team Disney, I thought it was best to just drive to the Boardwalk, where I was welcomed with open arms and didn't even have to make up a lie to park there, just show a license. <<I am worried (really I am). I've noticed more, and more similar complaints on just about every forum. This, I'm afraid, is a dangerous trend that if allowed to continue will become the norm. While I'm sure most people would agree, the vast majority of CM's do an exceptional job, there is no room for rudeness at WDW. The CM's are the backbone of WDW, and they can certainly make or break a vacation.>> Absolutely. And I had some very nice CM interactions. I especially enjoyed speaking with some of the young Chinese after spending the summer in their country. But it is human nature ... if you have 100 OK, good or great CMs, but one awful one, you remember the awful one. Hell, I still recall a crazy security guard back in 1997 or 98 who wouldn't let us walk on the WALKWAY from the Contemporary to the MK and made us return to the hotel and take a monorail causing us to be late for dinner with friends. That elicited a major complaint from me at City Hall (complete with red face and one or two light expletives) with a supervisor offering (and me turning down) a free dinner as compensation. I'll go back even further. I still recall the first nasty CM I ever dealt with at WDW ... this was back in 1986 when my mother showed an AP at the EPCOT entrance plaza (it had expired, but we had certificates to exchange for the new one) and this little fem twit decided we were trying to scam Disney and he got very nasty with mom and confiscated her old AP and made us pay for parking. I was speechless because in a dozen years of visits I had never witnessed a nasty CM before. We did report him. We did get our parking money back (but not the old AP). And we did get free dinner (at San Angel Inn, Nikki) on the Mouse. Again, I've experienced hundreds and hundreds of great, exceptional CMs, but those (expletive not inserted) others? They're the ones I can recall vividly. And I won't even talk about some of my more personal, intimate situations with folks on the exec pay scale! <<I remember one vacation there was a security guard at the gate of the Wlderness Lodge, her name was Kat. everytime one of the busses departed or arrived she would be outside waving. You would have thought this woman was on a float in the MK. You always knew when she was on duty, she would be outside waving My wife made a trip out to the guard shack to get her name so we could send a complimentary note to WDW guest services. I couldn't tell you about anything else note worthy on that trip. I'm sure we had a good time, and that one really friendly gesture by a cast member really enhanced it. We haven't seen her since, and were not able to find out what happen to her. I just wish somebody would slap some sense into Disney management, and get them to weed out the bad CM.s and make sure all the remaining CM's are well trained. Now is the time to get all of Disney standards up to what they should be at WDW.>> They have to want to do it, buddy. I don't believe they care. Not at all. But maybe the new Eyes and Ears will have photos of Meg dressed as a Pirate or Princess and 'working' MNSSHP on the 31st!
Originally Posted By Bob Paris I know it's the kinda default reaction around here when bad things are being spoken about the US parks to mention something about TDR but this is relevant. Upon heading back to the airport for our trip back to Australia, we took the coach from our hotel that happened to pass through the Mira Costa to pick up guests there. After the passengers were boarded and their luggage stowed, we headed out through the MC's driveway loop back to the main road. I looked out to see a single bell hop, dressed appropriately in custom era attire. He saw me looking at him from the bus and saluted a perfect salute. I was in so much shock at this simple yet completely respectful and fitting gesture. It spoke VOLUMES to me about Disney service, about the ethos of the Japanese Disney experience and about respect on a deeply personal level. I DO actually remember tearing up at how it made me feel. It was THE perfect capper to a trip that had included the US and Japanese resorts. It was TRUE Disney. God, I cannot wait to hear Spirit's reactions when he finally goes to the TDR.
Originally Posted By dshyates Iger pretty much said the place was bullet-proof. The economy hasn't effected the numbers at all. If they think a major recession/depression won't hurt it, what harm is a little peeling paint going to do?
Originally Posted By -em >>The economy hasn't effected the numbers at all.<< It has. Atleast they are in full defense mode... I don't know exact numbers but while the parks seem to be hanging in, resorts are rollercoastering it much more than usual.. The convention centers are suffering pretty good (to the fact that we are all on reduced hours- sigh back to eating ramen for another month- I had moved up to mac n cheese..)
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I have a theory about why, if it is true, the CM's are getting a little, shall we say, short with people is not unique to WDW. It is a general and long overdue change of attitude. That attitude is that I am no longer going to be someone's whipping boy just because you spent a few bucks to get in here. Your spending money does not justify treated another person without respect or consideration. This has been an ongoing trend for that past years. Treat people like crap and you will eventually upset someone enough to get comped for your trip. People are starting to say, minimum wage is not enough to put up with dehumanizing behavior from anybody. Treat me well and I will treat you well. Approach me like an obnoxious twit and I will call you on it. Before I get shot, I was not talking about you Spirit. I was talking about public behavior in general. My humble opinion is that if one person is involved in more than one incident the only common denominator in that scenario is that one person. I'm sure it wouldn't take to long to discover exactly what is happening and why. In my roll dealing with customer complaints I will tell you one thing, the complaints are getting dumber and dumber. Thus those that deal with the complaints are starting to fight back and say enough is enough. Stop treating me like I'm an idiot is the battle cry. You would not believe the outright lying that is going on as well. We have camera monitors installed and they show that at least 90% of the time, the complainer is out and out lying about the incidents. Thank god for modern technology.
Originally Posted By barboy SERVICE SUCKS IN THE US PT. 2 Compare and contrast: Tokyo Disneyland A team of 3 push broom/squeegee CM's worked a low spot in the asphalt where a puddle was constantly forming(it was nonstop rain showers that day) on a less traveled walkway just so us guests wouldn't have to slightly deviate from our normal travels. We could have easily walked around that low spot but I guess customer first is on their minds. EPCOT It started to rain hard and to escape the sudden downfall we dashed into the nearest shelter---some general international gift shop near the boat launch(closest to Mexico). It rained very heavy so we were all 'trapped' in that shop waiting and waiting for it to relent. We got tired of standing so just about everyone in the shop(maybe 15) sat on the floor. It couldn't have been more than 1 minute later 2 complete mindless, jerk, hypocrite cast members went around person to person telling us 'NO SITTING- IF WANY TO SIT YOU HAVE TO IT OUTSIDE THE SHOP'.
