Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF Mmm. How delicious. <a href="http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/" target="_blank">http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2...ent-boy/</a> >>On April 13, the "rent boy" (whom we'll call Lucien) arrived at Miami International Airport on Iberian Airlines Flight 6123, after a ten-day, fully subsidized trip to Europe. He was soon followed out of customs by an old man with an atavistic mustache and a desperate blond comb-over, pushing an overburdened baggage cart. That man was George Alan Rekers, of North Miami — the callboy's client and, as it happens, one of America's most prominent anti-gay activists. Rekers, a Baptist minister who is a leading scholar for the Christian right, left the terminal with his gay escort, looking a bit discomfited when a picture of the two was snapped with a hot-pink digital camera. In 1983, he and James Dobson, America's best-known homophobe, formed the Family Research Council, a D.C.-based, rabidly Christian, and vehemently anti-gay lobbying group that has become a standard-bearer of the nation's extreme right wing.<< That reminds me...I really should get that FOCUS ON YOUR OWN FAMILY bumper sticker I saw the other day...
Originally Posted By DAR Wow a religious leader proves to be a hypocrite, how shocking. Meanwhile the majority of us who continue to attend religious services lead a good life, don't but into the lives of others will somehow become linked.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Meanwhile the majority of us who continue to attend religious services lead a good life>> BlueDevil's pointing out of this hypocrite doesn't in any way attack good people in any religion, so why are you jumping to that conclusion? All this article does is point out the hypocrisy of some of those who appear to be the MOST against homosexuality. These morons push an anti-gay agenda, and then get caught actually engaging in homosexual acts - how sick and sad for them. They must be really, really messed up in the head to be so against something that they actually are, and if they weren't doing such hurtful things, I would feel sorry for them!
Originally Posted By DAR 3 and 4, I'm not referring to LP here. I'm speaking of the anti-religious people out there in the real world. Your atheist groups, your Bill Maher's or Seth McFarlane's of the world. Who will do nothing but bash religion or religious organizations(not that some don't deserve it). But they're just as ignornant as groups like Focus on the Family because they think that if you believe in God and attend service well then you're cut from the same cloth. And it's getting really tiresome.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 But what in the world does that have to do with the OP? That's about a rabidly anti-gay man, who has worked tirelessly to make life harder for and to deny equality to gay people, who turns out to be gay or bi himself. And believe me, ragging on FOF is not the same as ragging on Christianity (let alone all religion), much as FOF likes to pretend that only their type of Christian is a "true" Christian. You obviously know better than that, so you should have no beef with the OP.
Originally Posted By DAR I don't have a beef with the OP. What I have a beef with is the predictable backlash that occurs everytime a religious leader does something like this. It's almost like you're forced to apologize or place a caveat that we're not all like that.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>What I have a beef with is the predictable backlash that occurs everytime a religious leader does something like this. It's almost like you're forced to apologize or place a caveat that we're not all like that.<< Reasonable people don't need those apologies and caveats. And you needn't waste your time or energy on the unreasonable ones. However, there is a looooooooooooooooot of hypocrisy out there, and I feel sort of duty-bound to show it for what it is. I have ZERO sympathy for these people. Plus, it's just a hell of a lot of fun to do so and tickles me to no end. The coup de grace would be to find James Dobson or Pat Robertson in some sort of compromising position. Oh, that would be like consuming an entire French silk pie in one sitting.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<the predictable backlash that occurs everytime a religious leader does something like this>> Honestly, what do you expect? Of course this kind of thing will happen. These are the people who are claiming to represent their religions - the spokesperson if you will. Obviously, when these people screw up so publicly, it's bound to put that faith in a bad light. It's like what has happened with the Catholic Church. We all know that not all Catholics are bad people, but all the horrible stuff that has been coming out about the clergy certainly casts that religion in a bad light. Same with Muslims - we know not all Muslims are terrorists, yet sometimes, in our anger, we lump them all into that category. Is it fair - no. But sadly, it's a fact of life.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Plus, it's just a hell of a lot of fun to do so and tickles me to no end.>> While it does make me smile to see these hypocrites fall from grace, it also makes me very sad. I mean, what kind of a society forces someone to so repress who they are that they become a crusader against everything that they truly are? It really says alot about how messed up we are as a people.
Originally Posted By ecdc DAR's response points to an interesting phenomenon. When religion is attacked by the Maher's or Dawkins of the world, the response is rarely to counter their arguments or attack their logic. Instead, it's to do just what DAR did: Play the Outrage Card. "How dare anyone impugn me or my beliefs! I don't endorse this kind of nonsense, so why come after me?" It's funny because the response ought to be one of two things. 1) I don't agree with Focus on the Family or whatever so it's no skin off my nose if they're criticized. Or, 2) I do agree with them so here's why Maher, Dawkins, et al, are wrong. Or perhaps a third: I don't believe that and neither does my church, so it's wrong for Maher or others to generalize. But here's the rub on that third one: Most people do belong to churches that endorse bigotry against gays on some level. Dabob2, for example, does not. He can take the high road and has a leg to stand on when he criticizes the Mahers or Dawkins of the world for generalizing. But most can't. They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be absolved of responsibility for the bigotry of their churches (hi, Catholics) while not leaving their faiths behind. So we get DAR's response: I don't believe that, I just belong to an organization that does, so please don't come after me. If Maher or McFarlane or Dawkins or Hitchens are wrong, by all means tell us why. If not, the Outrage, "How dare you criticize my faith" Card, doesn't cut it.
Originally Posted By DAR I'm not saying don't criticize what I'm saying is don't lump me with the them. I don't think that way, I never thought that way and I don't approve of any of that.
Originally Posted By velo I don't think anyone lumped you in anywhere, DAR. You've made it abundantly clear that you're different.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "I'm not saying don't criticize what I'm saying is don't lump me with the them. I don't think that way, I never thought that way and I don't approve of any of that." It's not all about you. You must feel overly sensitive about the subject or something. Nobody was attacking religion at all. It's this one guy, and a lot of other anti-gay activists that are being found out. I'm not quite sure why you're feeling singled out here...
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I'm not saying don't criticize what I'm saying is don't lump me with the them. I don't think that way, I never thought that way and I don't approve of any of that.<< But it's perfectly reasonable to analyze why something like this happens and draw larger conclusions about the religious environment in this country that might lead to it. Further, what church do you belong to? If it's one that advocates discrimination against gays, then I'd say it is reasonable that you're lumped in with those being criticized. If Bill Maher goes after the Mormon church for their anti-gay agenda, my Mormon friends, even those who don't agree with the church, accept the criticism as legitimate since they're part of the organization. In short, if you don't want to be lumped in, then don't associate with groups that are going to be legitimately criticized.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Even though I do not know DAR personally, I often get the sense that this rhetoric of his might stem from his own misgivings about remaining with his church, and that's why he gets so defensive about it. DAR isn't ready to jump ship from his religion of choice, but he doesn't condone the high profile actions of those in charge. Since he's decided to stay with this religion for now, he feels threatened every time some hypocritical evangelical type gets caught with his pants down, and launches into pre-emptive strike posting behavior, to defend his choice to stay. Given how quickly and predictively you do engage in this activity, DAR, perhaps you should examine your motives for staying. I have close friends who are Catholic and never launch into defensive posturing such as this, whenever discussions turn to anti-gay church propaganda or pedophilia in the priesthood. They're very comfortable with their Catholicism but also condemn the bigoted and hypocritical actions of those at the top. They're in it for the spiritual part of the religion, and take a broad ecumenical view of Christianity as a whole. Methinks you might not be as broadminded as they are, when it comes to the nuts and bolts of your personal belief system. "The DAR, he doth protest too much."
Originally Posted By DAR <<Even though I do not know DAR personally, I often get the sense that this rhetoric of his might stem from his own misgivings about remaining with his church, and that's why he gets so defensive about it.>> The misgivings for my church(Catholic) is that it's been ruined by their stances on gays, abortion, women in the church, priests being allowed to marry, I'm somewhat liberal on those stances. <<DAR isn't ready to jump ship from his religion of choice, but he doesn't condone the high profile actions of those in charge. Since he's decided to stay with this religion for now, he feels threatened every time some hypocritical evangelical type gets caught with his pants down, and launches into pre-emptive strike posting behavior, to defend his choice to stay. Given how quickly and predictively you do engage in this activity, DAR, perhaps you should examine your motives for staying. I have close friends who are Catholic and never launch into defensive posturing such as this, whenever discussions turn to anti-gay church propaganda or pedophilia in the priesthood. They're very comfortable with their Catholicism but also condemn the bigoted and hypocritical actions of those at the top. They're in it for the spiritual part of the religion, and take a broad ecumenical view of Christianity as a whole.>> Well when it comes to pedophilla you will never ever see me condone those actions. In fact I am so disgusted with what the priests did whether every allegation stuck or not. But I also believe there are still good people with the in the Catholic faith. Which is why I still stick with it.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>That's about a rabidly anti-gay man, who has worked tirelessly to make life harder for and to deny equality to gay people, who turns out to be gay or bi himself.<< Stories like this strike me as weird. Are there any fire breathing PETA heads who are closet carnivores?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 LOL. Doubtful. But eating meat isn't something that is typically a). hidden, b). hated internally by the meat-eater. People who feel forced to hide their homosexuality, and who internalize the bigotry to the point they hate that part of themselves very often do turn that rage outward and become rabidly anti-gay, both as a means of hiding it among their peers, and as a means of attacking what they hate in themselves. It's messed up, but quite common.
