Originally Posted By DAR ttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB123369271403544637.html That's just one of the more insane items being proposed in the stimulus package
Originally Posted By DAR <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123369271403544637.html" target="_blank">http://online.wsj.com/article/...637.html</a>
Originally Posted By dshyates Yes DAR the DEMS did get a few pet projects in. And the Repubs got some pointless tax cuts in. Your point is? Thats called comprimise.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I hear the package as of this AM is now up to $937B -- I guess a few more pet projects have been added compromise seems to be going well
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Hey...no criticizing! Isn't that the mantra? I think we (Democrats AND Republicans) have every right to be critical of the absolute waste that is in the bill...waste put there by both parties.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I think we (Democrats AND Republicans) have every right to be critical of the absolute waste that is in the bill...waste put there by both parties.<< Yup. So Alex, what IS behind door #3?
Originally Posted By dshyates The Repubs are b*tching about .5% of the plan calling it dem pork, when they have add 6% in worthless Republican dream tax cuts. It doesn't appear that they understand that they lost because Americans are tired of the same ol' republican crap.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I think Americans are tired of the same old Poltical crap. As long as WE let THEM play the partisan games WE ALL are going to be screwed.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Hey...no criticizing! Isn't that the mantra?<< No, and it never has been, no matter how many time you stand that particular straw man up again.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <The Repubs are b*tching about .5% of the plan calling it dem pork, when they have add 6% in worthless Republican dream tax cuts. It doesn't appear that they understand that they lost because Americans are tired of the same ol' republican crap. < and we're all OK with the stuff the Dems keep adding - this last $112B is a little higher % than you claim GOP is bicching about... I'm tired of that crap from all of them -
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Kar2oon...you are wrong. Perhaps YOU aren't of the mindset that noone can be critical of Obama but I have faced it online, at work and in my own family. Now, I'm not saying Obama doesn't think he should face criticism (though I wonder if that is what he is expecting as he tries to ram this thing home) but there are plenty of his defenders out there who are actually stunned that anything he does might be questioned.
Originally Posted By alexbook If building a Frisbee golf course will result in a significant number of construction jobs, plus bringing a boost to local businesses, what's wrong with it?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I have faced it online, at work and in my own family. << That's between your friends and your family. But there's no one, not a single person, at THIS site saying you can't be critical of Obama's policies. So please stop repeating it until someone actually gets in your face and tries to prevent you from criticizing his actions here. >>there are plenty of his defenders out there<< Again... "out there". Not here. There are people "out there" who believe the govt. blew up buildings during the 911 attacks. I'm just saying it gets REALLY tiresome to read that sort of thing prefacing your comments again and again. It sounds whiny. Criticize all you like.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder All of this makes me wish the president had the power of a line item veto. Republicans took it away from Clinton via lawsuits and partisanship, even though Reagan wanted it too at one point. <a href="http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/97-1374.ZO.html" target="_blank">http://supct.law.cornell.edu/s....ZO.html</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>If building a Frisbee golf course will result in a significant number of construction jobs, plus bringing a boost to local businesses, what's wrong with it?<< Good question. That's sort of the point of a "stimulus" plan after all -- to pump money into places through the govt. Is a Frisbee course a great return on investment? Is it prudent use of government money to pay for highway improvements and streets that lead to a private sector theme park where people buy and wear mouse ears? Is that smart spending or socialistic waste?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Is a Frisbee course a great return on investment?<< Not just a Frisbee course ... an $886,000 Frisbee course. Should be even nicer than the Golden Gate bridge. I wonder how much Wham-O contributed to the Democrats last year?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 as long as those contracts are up for open bids absolutely- the problem is in some cases those monies have been promised to favorite son contractors and will never go out to bid and never put others to work.... just being honest here- but I have lived these politics all my life- I don't want to see this picture painted that all will be rosy with thsi -- does it have to happen - yes - but scrutiny is key-- look whats already happened with part of the stimulus given out - it has NOT found it's way to home loans and credit extnesions etc..-- let's sell the stimlusus on 'we have to try something' - but let's not make it seem like it is simple how the next steps will work - it isn't. and again, all parties to blame for that - sans a few innocent ones somewhere I am sure. How do we fix this whole thing at once- answer is we likely don't-- but scrutiny over the top is absolutely necessary. When I see people posting here hoping for override veto's and absolute control is makes me shudder -- that is NOT a good thing - even if it appears to be for one situation. Once we let that horse out of the barn - there is no turning back. History has not been kind to such governments. that being said I agree they need to stop tryning to make the bill tax cuts- they had their turn - time to try something else- but yes - please continue to scrutnize for excessive pork ---that's the GOP role today - whether I or anyone else likes it. I just wish I'd see such outrage for the few Dems adding crap to the bill-- THAT would also be progress.
Originally Posted By alexbook Set aside the fact that it's a Frisbee golf course. Call it $886,000 for a city park. Is that a good investment? Consider how many people are going to be employed in building and maintaining it, and how many people are going to visit the park, and how many shops and restaurants will benefit from the park visitors. How many jobs will that $886,000 create? Do you know? If the $886,000 were for a park that was going to be used for football or horseback riding, would there be the same objections? Would we have even heard about it? I actually don't care for Frisbee golf, myself, but it seems like people are combing the lists of proposed projects and looking for the silliest sounding ones, regardless of their merits. I'm sure there's some nifty Latin name for this sort of attack on a proposal, but I don't know what it is. I just know it bugs the heck out of me, just like when William Proxmire and Ronald Reagan used it decades ago.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 do you know how many jobs it will create ? What if it is zero ? What if it satys in the hands of politicians who use it for further patronage for ghost payrollers ? It would be nice if these prjects included what they will do... you don't know any more than I do what it will do - yet you don't seem to want to know. Can you imagine asking your boss or a bank for a loan - and when they asked what you were going to do with it - your answer was - gee I don't know. There needs to be business cases- even high level ones for these requests -or else living where I do, I believe real people will never see a nickel of it - business as usual. Tell me you're going to put a park in an area that is trying to rebuild and what exactly this means for it - not maybe the park will go a bock down from another one already there because the alderman lives on that block and he wants one for his granddaughter to play in. See two can play at that game -- support for the requests - jsut doesn't seem like that much to ask -- the government got criticized when they were handing our debit cards in N.O. without knowing if people got two or if some really needed them - yet we are willing to hand huge debit cards over to politicians - why ? Because their history is so trustworthy ?
Originally Posted By alexbook I'm actually undecided on the bill as a whole. I don't know if it's a good idea or not, nor do I know if this is a good project or not. I wasn't trying to make a point about the larger picture. I do know that the way the bill is being attacked in some quarters--by picking out individual projects and ridiculing them--doesn't go to the fundamental question of whether it's a good bill or not. That's what I'm objecting to, and that was the whole point I was trying to make. I understand the objection to handing out money for projects that will be controlled locally. It's a valid objection, and you make it well. I do think that saying, a priori, that a Frisbee golf course is a bad idea, because it's a Frisbee golf course, is as nonsensical as saying that a bridge is a good idea because it's a bridge.
