Originally Posted By Erjontem <a href="http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/tangled/music.php" target="_blank">http://www.waltdisneystudiosaw...usic.php</a>
Originally Posted By mawnck God bless you, Erjontem. I rest my case. So ... any Disney fans still NOT going to see Tangled now?
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: What a pretty little song performed by such lovely voices. ORWEN: I never heard of Many Moore or Zachary Levi until we heard they would be doing the voices of Rapunzel and Flynn. From now on we'll have to start paying more attention to them. ORDDU: If only the marketing people at Disney would stop acting as though they're too ashamed of Alen Menken's music by tryig to hide it from the general public the way they did in those nasty, misleading trailers the put out! Shame on them! ORWEN: I think they deserve to be cursed, myself! Anybody know an evil spell to cast over those old toads?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Face towards Glendale and bow three times while chanting "Pixar drains and Dreamworks gains." Then watch their puny little marketing heads explode.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I think it's cool that Mandy Moore and Zachary Levi can both sing. And their voices are actually quite good too. Sweet song. <Face towards Glendale and bow three times while chanting "Pixar drains and Dreamworks gains." Then watch their puny little marketing heads explode.> I've read this passage countless times, I still don't understand what it means...
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I've read this passage countless times, I still don't understand what it means...<< TPTB at Disney and Pixar are developing a reputation in some circles for kicking directors off their own projects, then retooling them into the same old Disney and Pixar formulas. Ratatouille, American Dog/Bolt and Rapunzel/Tangled are all examples, and it appears that the now-in-production Brave is yet another one. Dean DeBlois and Chris Sanders, the original creators and directors of American Dog (as well as an obscure flop called Lilo and Stitch) left the company and ended up at Dreamworks directing How To Train Your Dragon. There is speculation that Brenda Chapman, Pixar brain trust member and creator of Brave, may be following them, having also been "relieved" of her personal project by Lasseter and Co. It's all insider politics and difficult to evaluate from the comfort of your own home. But if Dreamworks starts making better movies than Pixar (which some might argue they already are), then you'll know why. Read more here: <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-116613-P-1.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...-P-1.asp</a>
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: It's all very sad, to say the least, that there are all these greedy, power hungry types running around--ready to stab others in their backs like they do. While it's been like this since the beginning of time, it seems to be getting worse. No one can trust anybody any more.
Originally Posted By mawnck I should probably clarify that I have no position on the matter, as I am not acquainted with the people involved, and am only getting my info from the same internets as everyone else. Also, one man's back-stab is another man's difference of opinion. And personal movies or not, these people are employees, and their managers' opinions are the ones that matter most. They have every right to pull the plug if they think that's for the best. Walt Disney did it, Studio Ghibli sure does it. Heck, the original directors of How To Train Your Dragon had it done to them when Sanders and DeBlois came in. There's a legendary movie that Richard "Roger Rabbit" Williams had jerked out from under him in the home stretch, called The Thief and the Cobbler. Most animation geeks will tell you that this was the most evil thing ever done by a movie studio in the history of movies, but they're wrong. Whatever its merits, and it certainly had a ton of 'em, there was no way a general audience was going to go sit through that strange thing and make back its ridiculously over-budget production costs. Is it a tragic artistic loss to humanity that Williams had his most cherished project swiped, re-edited, and essentially ruined by the studio? Yep. But was it the right decision? Yep. You can't keep on throwing good money after bad indefinitely just for the art of the thing. Life just don't bees that way. As a guy out here in the general public, the only first hand info I have is my watching the movies. And while I am starting to be annoyed by certain stylistic ... ummm ... "conformities" in recent Disney and Pixar films (most definitely including Tangled), the movies themselves have all been at least pretty good, and most have been excellent to spectacular. I even liked the first Tinkerbell movie, and I NEVER thought that would happen. So if there is a drop-off in quality and creativity on the way, we haven't seen a lot of evidence of it yet. At least not on the screen, where it counts. And Disney/Pixar's loss isn't necessarily ours, as long as these talented people have other places to go do their thing. If Pixar wants to kick out their innovators and start burping out cookie cutter consumer product type movies, let 'em have at it, and face the consequences. Let 'em deal with their remaining creative team withholding all their best stuff for fear of having it "stolen" as well. I'll just go enjoy what Sanders and Chapman are doing at the competition. But we digress. This topic is not about backroom shenanigans at Pixar. CLICK ON THIS LINK if you didn't do so in post 1. There's a really good DISNEY Disney movie called Tangled. It's about a girl named Rapunzel, and this song is in it: <a href="http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/tangled/music.php" target="_blank">http://www.waltdisneystudiosaw...usic.php</a>
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Finally, an actual full song from Tangled. I love it, and hope all the rest of the songs are just as good. Really looking forward to this movie - despite the horrible marketing!
Originally Posted By leemac <<Also, one man's back-stab is another man's difference of opinion.>> The point is that it shouldn't make any difference whether it is a personal piece or any other movie. It is down to the production team to make sure that it is a marketable and commercial product. It should never get to the point that removing the writer/director or any other senior creative is the only option. Lasseter has gone the nuclear route on some many movies in recent memory and I think only one truly came out better for the experience (Ratatouille - Jan's original movie just wasn't going to work). The issue is that it swings too much the other way - these "personal" quirky projects sudden veer to the other end of the creative spectrum and become a homogenized indistinct blob. That is exactly what happened on American Dog/Bolt. Ultimately The Bear and the Bow should never have got this far into production for the creative visionary/director to be removed. There are always other ways - it just seems Lasseter likes to remind folks who is boss every now and then. It has left a lot of career Pixar folks questioning what the company stands for anymore - it has become just another animation factory (albeit the most successful in town - for now). Same thing has happened on Tangled. I've seen about 6 or 7 different versions of this movie over the years and with every single version it has become more Disney-fied - less stylized and more corporate. Granted there is a lot of money at stake ($250m is the number being tossed around) but Glen Keane's original movie had great bones - it really was going to be a game-changer for fairy tale stories. Then we go through the various pop culture incarnation to the current version - which is definitely better than some of the middle versions I saw. However it is still all so "same-y". It is all too safe - let's bring in Menken to put together Beauty and the Beast-style songs (they don't have a particular musical style in the movie unlike Mermaid, Hunchback, Hercules etc.). I worry immensely for the future of WDAS - I'm convinced that Tangled will tank when it is released this month - to the point where I think it could come in under The Princess and the Frog. If that is the case then Disney will be losing hundreds of millions. Granted the marketing has been abysmal - truly terrible - and there has been little word-of-mouth about the movie but ultimately the execution just isn't compelling. It isn't something new or exciting - it is a throwback to another time by a corporation desperate to return to those glory days instead of trying to come up with new product.
Originally Posted By leemac And back to your regularly scheduled broadcast..... The music is fine in my book. Perhaps I'm just getting a little jaded with Menken - he is everywhere now with two new-ish musicals too in Sister Act and Leap of Faith. I didn't find the music to sound particularly new or refreshing - it did seem very B&B to me which I guess is okay if that is what you are shooting for. I just expected something different - perhaps something that actually fit the Rapunzel location - but then the movie isn't really Rapunzel anymore. However I'm still not a fan of Slater's lyrics. I just don't understand how he is so much in demand - his stuff for Lloyd Webber's atrocious Love Never Dies is truly excrement. He just doesn't have an ability to write comedy (like Ashman or even folks like Bobby Lopez) and every ballad sounds the same - nothing new.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>It isn't something new or exciting - it is a throwback to another time<< I saw a test screening back in May and I enjoyed Tangled tremendously. Disney is currently doing advanced showings with radio stations in various locations, and more rave reviews have been coming in from the folks that have gone. Which is not to discount your opinion (which is valid and very defensible), other than to point out that the darn thing is a crowd pleaser, and if the word of mouth gets going, it could be a big hit. Remember, Robin Hood was a flagrant retread and more-or-less sucked, and look what happened with it. (Although post-Robin Hood wasn't exactly a golden age, was it.) I do agree with what I quoted above, very much so. In fact I said something to that effect in my original review in May. I just think it might be a good time for a throwback.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<his stuff for Lloyd Webber's atrocious Love Never Dies is truly excrement.>> So true!! I saw the play in London, and while I thought Weber's music was quite beautiful, the lyrics and story just killed the thing.
Originally Posted By Erjontem <<I've seen about 6 or 7 different versions of this movie over the years and with every single version it has become more Disney-fied - less stylized and more corporate>> For me, the one that got away will always be Kingdom of the Sun... The Emperor's New Groove was fun and actually quite bold in its style and tone, but the original Kingdom of the Sun had the makings of a true epic classic. This all comes from the outsider point of view of a blog-reading fan; I have no idea how good the movie would actually have been, but I guess now we'll never know. Also, I'm slightly disappointed by this Tangled song. It's very cheesy, and though I've listened to it a handful of times, I still can't remember the melody. And the lyrics are very mediocre ("it's like," repeated over and over again, is just poor English, and "crystal clear" is a painful throwback to the much superior "A Whole New World"). Please don't tell me this is the best song in the movie... All of this said, I'm very excited about Tangled and I do hope it does well!!!
Originally Posted By Erjontem While I'm at it, I have a question for leemac about this statement: <<Glen Keane's original movie had great bones - it really was going to be a game-changer for fairy tale stories>> I've wondered about this before and I keep getting diverging answers. Has the original 2D-meets-3D Fragonard-inspired visual style been entirely abandoned? Is this movie straight up CGI? From the trailers, I don't think it looks that much better than any other CGI movie, so am I right in assuming Glen Keane's efforts in bridging the gap between the two media were completely discarded? There was a short clip leaked online a year or two ago that featured a slightly different-looking Rapunzel talking to a squirrel, saying she didn't believe in magic... (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRO6EHhPr5g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...6EHhPr5g</a>) This was all before the "Tangled" rebranding was known by the public. Was that clip the 2D-3D deal? Because the quality of the leak was pretty poor, it was hard to tell how good it looked. My question for leemac is: if today's Tangled is straight-up CGI, and if the original product had a different look altogether, how big is the difference between the two? Was the Glen Keane Fragonard piece a whole different beast visually?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Which is not to discount your opinion (which is valid and very defensible), other than to point out that the darn thing is a crowd pleaser, and if the word of mouth gets going, it could be a big hit. >> I hope I'm wrong - I haven't seen any reviews so wasn't sure how it was testing. TWDC cast members in LA could see it this past weekend. The movie needs to be a success - otherwise I just don't know what will become of Disney animation in SoCal. <<I just think it might be a good time for a throwback.>> I think I could have handled it being a throwback - I just can't handle the hipness of the whole thing. It feels just too contemporary to me. My view is that they should have either told it straight or taken a completely different route (Keane's).
Originally Posted By leemac <<For me, the one that got away will always be Kingdom of the Sun>> It had problems - huge problems - but it was an incredibly bold and risky project. Incredibly dark in tone - it really was an "adult" animated feature. Management hated it though - especially Tom Schumacher. The "concept" art on the Emperor's New Groove Collector's Edition DVD doesn't go it any justice - they definitely didn't pick the best piece IMHO. The whole problem with that swath of releases after Hercules was that there wasn't a coherent release plan - no executive should have greenlighted Atlantis and Treasure Planet so close together.
Originally Posted By leemac <<And the lyrics are very mediocre ("it's like," repeated over and over again, is just poor English, and "crystal clear" is a painful throwback to the much superior "A Whole New World"). Please don't tell me this is the best song in the movie...>> That is Slater. The guy is incredibly formulaic. I'm not sure I could pick a best song from Tangled - all of the music is very similar. There isn't anything that stands out for me.
Originally Posted By leemac <<My question for leemac is: if today's Tangled is straight-up CGI, and if the original product had a different look altogether, how big is the difference between the two? Was the Glen Keane Fragonard piece a whole different beast visually?>> I really can't answer the process question - I know very little about the technique behind CGI. However the movie released this month looks like a typical CGI feature to me - and it doesn't look as good as a Pixar feature IMHO (I've no idea how WDAS renders its features). It is entirely different visually to Keane's original plans. I don't know if that means that Keane's bridging technique was entirely shelved or whether it just doesn't work (for me anyhow). I really feel like a Debbie Downer on this picture. I want it to do well as I think there is a lot riding on it but I'm not sure if will find any audience whatsoever now thanks to a terrible marketing campaign (in a long line of bad campaigns for WDAS product) or whether it just isn't distinct enough in the plethora of CGI kids' movies.
