Originally Posted By MPierce >> Oops, sorry. I thought Nikki was the only teacher around here of which I had to be careful. << Yeah, you should have known gooder than that! Speaking of Nikki I wounder where she's been lately. Also what has happen to Labuda? >> What's worse is when it all comes down to it you have two 60ish men, who still believe they're 18 ... and often act the part. << I'll be fitting into that catagory before to very long!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I noticed Nikki only seems to log on when she has a trip coming up...hmmmm. as for Ann, not sure what has happened to her. But I do miss reading her thoughts.
Originally Posted By MPierce Me to Dave, I miss labuda, and ssWEDguy's comments. I guess it's easy enough for me to keep up with the boards since I don't have a job. Everybody else may not always have a lot of time on their hands like me.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 I was only playing around with my best bud Jonvn. Althogh personally I still say 1984-1994 was the best Disney era.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<<Speaking of Nikki I wounder where she's been lately. Also what has happen to Labuda>>> They are both knowledgible and compassionate about Disney, they add a lot to the boards.
Originally Posted By jonvn I experienced both the era I talked about and 1984-1994. They really don't compare. 1984 through 94 were ok. But not like the earlier years, where you got the invention of audio animatronics, Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Small World, New Orleans Square, the purchase of the land for WDW, the new TL, subs, matterhorn, monorail, carousel of Progress, and many others. All between 1959 and 67. Nothing like that has gone on since.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I don't know jonvn, watching EuroDisney contract sign, building and opening was pretty exciting too!!!
Originally Posted By CMDad <<Jonvn your ignorant. The best era of the Walt Disney Company was 1984-1994. Nothing tops Splash Mountain, Star Tours, Tower of Terror, Roger Rabbit, and Indiana Jones. Truely imagineering at its peak.>> I also have to agree with Jonvn here ... yes there were some good things in the 84-94 period, but what made/makes DL/WDW etc. the places they became, had their roots in the earlier period. Now, possible that was because my first trip to a Disney Park came at a time before Disney WAS in other places than Anaheim, but the period that ended in 1969 with the opening of HM, defined what a Disney Park is.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo No denying the run up to 1969 is what truly made the Disney park going experience the lifechanging awesome event, but the creation of Epcot and DLP were pretty awesome too!
Originally Posted By barboy "the creation of Epcot and DLP were pretty awesome too!" You bet!(and this comes from one who thinks DLP and especially EPCOT are actually UNDERRATED-- just very fine parks) But never forget Disney's greatest addition to its chain of parks came in under the radar close in time to the 911 attacks---- Tokyo's Disney Sea.
Originally Posted By jonvn Everything these other parks are or were built to be was laid down in the 1960s.
Originally Posted By land fan Disneyland rocked during the 60's, especially the later part of that decade. Pirates of the Caribbean, the new Tomorrowland, and The Haunted Mansion all opening in within a three year period! Amazing! (And dont forget the opening of one of Disney's best lands ever, New Orleans Square in 1966!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<1984 through 94 were ok. But not like the earlier years, where you got the invention of audio animatronics, Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Small World, New Orleans Square, the purchase of the land for WDW, the new TL, subs, matterhorn, monorail, carousel of Progress, and many others. All between 1959 and 67. Nothing like that has gone on since. >> <<Everything these other parks are or were built to be was laid down in the 1960s. >> It is heartening to realize that even a total crackpot like you Jon realize that. Yes, great things have been accomplished at WDI in the past few decades. Everything from the advanced AAs, to parks like DLP, DAK and TDS, but they were all based/built upon what came before. I would compare WDI to NASA in many ways. What the space agency accomplished in the 60s and early 70s was some of the greatest things in the history of mankind. Then what? We regressed. Instead of putting a base on the moon or exploring Mars and the solar system, we built an incredibly expensive spacecraft/plane combo that can barely reach space, is so outdated in technology now that it is a joke, and, oh yeah, due to inherrent flaws in both it and the agency, we tend to have one blow up every 50-60 missions. Sure, the space station is nice ... and yeah, we have gained knowledge that has helped with products on earth. But nothing big has happened. And it almost seems like we've fallen back ... maybe because we have ... going from Apollo to shuttles was like going from the Concorde to an overstuffed 737. NASA is living on past reputation, and frankly it's been tarnished ... a lot. That's what WDI is like now. It's living off the reputation, largely, of men and women who are dead or retired. And their replacements are much more motivated by personal issues. There's no John Hench around to say 'cartoon characters in every land destroy the stories we're trying to tell.' Do some guys (Tony Baxter) get it more than others (Tom Fitzgerald)? IMHO, absolutely. But it isn't simple either. There are folks in charge like Bob Iger and Jay Rasulo who don't understand the parks as anything more than huge profit centers. There's also so much waste. Anyone who believes it all comes down to budgets has no clue how WDI works. Both DCA and DAK had very similar budgets and DSP wasn't hugely less expensive either. But one works so much better than the others. Why is that? SSE is a great example. Let's say what's done is all that is going to be, but suddenly you gave the team another $25 million to work on the ending. You know what? I don't think the current group could improve it more than 20%. The truly creative folks in Glendale ... the one that 'get' what the 'purists' expect from Disney parks are either marginalized or put out to pasture. I want WDI to knock my socks off. But sometimes I wonder if they could even untie my sneakers without running it through a committee. Where is the 21st century equivalent of Mansion? Why is a 1969 attraction still so damn great in 2007, but the current stuff always has to be graded on some kind of corporate curve? Where are the great ideas from WDI? Because while I know there are some decent/good ideas in the pipeline, I also know there's nothing that I've heard of that has that WOW factor that those old faves still have decades later. Why has Disney's offerings become so ordinary, so pedestrian? And why, oh why, do I feel like that dude with the frozen brain will come up with a massive list trying to compare things like Test Track, Soarin, Mission Space, PhilharMagic, RnRC etc ... with Disney's best when NONE even come close?
Originally Posted By jonvn "It is heartening to realize that even a total crackpot like you Jon realize that." I actually know quite a lot about this crap, and am not female, nuts, nor gay. So I have a slightly different perspective here than many. "Do some guys (Tony Baxter) get it more than others (Tom Fitzgerald)? IMHO, absolutely." I think Tony Baxter pays a lot of lip service to the fans, but ultimately has done a some damage himself. I think a lot of his praise is over the top and not wholly deserved. That said, he's been very kind and open to the fan base, and so people like him. Supposedly he is talented, but not does not seem very well grounded in the nuts and bolts issues that are necessary to do the best job possible. You need to listen very closely to what he had to say on the Disneyland DVD that just came out. It's very interesting if you pay close attention. He obviously is not happy with what is happening. He also seems to not be able to figure out how to do anything for less than a jillion dollars. "trying to compare things like Test Track, Soarin, Mission Space, PhilharMagic, RnRC etc ... with Disney's best when NONE even come close?" I don't know who has the "frozen brain" but people will compare these because they don't see anything else coming out, and they don't understand the impact these older things did when they were new. They see them as OLD things and not interesting. People don't get that these old things were so fantastic and beyond what anyone else was creating that they've managed to last 40 years and still be popular. And in the case of POTC, managed to be so embedded into our conciousness, that it spawned a multimillion dollar film franchise. Based on something built 40 years ago. Ok? Figure this out kids: In 40 years, NO ONE is going to remember anything these guys have done the last few years, let alone have them be able to create a film franchise based off of something like...um...Test Track, or anything else they are doing. The stuff they do now, the stuff they have done, is nothing like what they were doing, and what they have rested upon instead of continuing their progress. In terms of NASA, though? Thank Nixon. He gutted the agency to pay for the Vietnam War. Great man, that Nixon fellow. Great man.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Bad analogy with NASA. As jonvn mentions much of their problem has to do with funding. And even though Shuttle technology is ancient, more real science has been accomplished with the shuttle than was ever accomplished by an Apollo mission. Sure, the stuff they do isn't as cool as watching people jump around on the moon, but it is just as important. As for WDI living off past glories... the guy with the Frozen Brain thinks The Spirit has a brain that is rotting from the heat and humidity (we will refer to it in the future as Mush Brain). Animal Kingdom Theme Park in its entirety is equal to anything WDI has come up with before. As far as an individual attraction goes, I'd put Kilimanjaro Safaris up against any of them.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>GOLL*E: What Would Walt Think ...<< It's not about what Walt would think anymore. It's about what the pesky survey takers are doing with those survey results. Lucky for Disney, Orlando has become a value market, with such cheap ways to get into and out of town.. SWA, JetBlue, Spirit and AirTran.. The victims will continue to arrive regardless, and pay MORE for their WDW passports as they did for their airplane tickets.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I actually know quite a lot about this crap, and am not female, nuts, nor gay. So I have a slightly different perspective here than many.>> I know you do. And I'd much rather hear it than your opinions about lazy morbidly obese Americans or even Al Lutz (although it can be entertaining!) And you don't have to be female, nuts or gay to know what's going on or even post here ... it just helps! "Do some guys (Tony Baxter) get it more than others (Tom Fitzgerald)? IMHO, absolutely." <<I think Tony Baxter pays a lot of lip service to the fans, but ultimately has done a some damage himself. I think a lot of his praise is over the top and not wholly deserved.>> Absolutely. He is the king (or queen) of Celebrity Imagineers. And when I hear his crackpot minions whine about wanting Discovery Bay, which may have been a good concept in the mid-70s but would be met with a colletive yawn today, I'm convinced they've bought into his PR. <<That said, he's been very kind and open to the fan base, and so people like him. Supposedly he is talented, but not does not seem very well grounded in the nuts and bolts issues that are necessary to do the best job possible. >> Anyone that visits DLP, which was his baby (although he had an all-star team and a huge budget to work with, can't help but realize what a talent the man is. And that's leaving out many of his park projects, like two of DL's major mountains, the Fantasyland redo, part of the original EPCOT ... so, yeah, he does have lots of talent. As to being grounded in reality ... or the nuts and bolts as you put it, well he's not for the most part. And guess what? Most Imagineers today aren't. He also has a very ugly temper you really wouldn't want to see when he doesn't get his way. But again, that's Glendale ... a whole lot of Peter Pans walking the halls. <<You need to listen very closely to what he had to say on the Disneyland DVD that just came out. It's very interesting if you pay close attention. He obviously is not happy with what is happening.>> Haven't seen it yet. Waiting for a friend to send me one. I've spent enough on Imagineering books, DVDs and the like to finance my own pretty good ride! And, no, Tony isn't happy with what is going on. I do believe much of it was filmed quite a while ago, though, and Tony's moods change with the wind. I hear that he has happier now with some of the projects he'll oversee coming to DL ... and he's also happy that something major he was involved in in Florida will finally (hopefully) be fixed. But I think the crux of his his 'issues' is that Marty has always (for some very unknown but widely speculated reasons) chosen 'Tom's side' the battle of Dueling Divas. Frankly, I think the only reason Tony is still at WDI, let alone in a position of power, is because John Lasseter is also like a teen who likes cool things and DL is the ultimate toy. John is Tony's protector. At least for five years! <<He also seems to not be able to figure out how to do anything for less than a jillion dollars.>> No one there can. That was the whole absurd joke of having the place run by money guys like Goodman. They wasted more money than ever because the creative choices they made were bad and didn't work in the real world. Rocket Rods anyone? And while people like talking about what recent WDW additions like Everest and Mission Space cost, do you have any idea how much overbudget Test Track was ... and that was before the nine month delay in getting it open? People at Disney tend to ignore that one because 'it was a new technology' (well, duh, most of what Disney is doing is) and 'it immediately had the biggest lines at WDW' (yeah, because it broke down ever 18 minutes for an hour!) Overspending at WDI goes back almost to Walt's days. The diffence is back then the results were worth it. Now, you look at crap like MILF, SGE, Imagination versions 2.0 and 3.0 etc ... and ask 'what could they possibly have been thinking?' Do you have any idea how much money was spent just on my examples above? I'll give you a hint, you could buy A-Rod's contract out from the Yankees for that! "trying to compare things like Test Track, Soarin, Mission Space, PhilharMagic, RnRC etc ... with Disney's best when NONE even come close?" <<I don't know who has the "frozen brain" but people will compare these because they don't see anything else coming out, and they don't understand the impact these older things did when they were new. They see them as OLD things and not interesting. People don't get that these old things were so fantastic and beyond what anyone else was creating that they've managed to last 40 years and still be popular. And in the case of POTC, managed to be so embedded into our conciousness, that it spawned a multimillion dollar film franchise. Based on something built 40 years ago. Ok? Figure this out kids: In 40 years, NO ONE is going to remember anything these guys have done the last few years, let alone have them be able to create a film franchise based off of something like...um...Test Track, or anything else they are doing. The stuff they do now, the stuff they have done, is nothing like what they were doing, and what they have rested upon instead of continuing their progress.>> Largely, I agree. There are exceptions. Where money and quality equal out ... like DAK ... like TDS ... but even then, how many of the attractions are truly ground-breaking? Very, very few. <<In terms of NASA, though? Thank Nixon. He gutted the agency to pay for the Vietnam War. Great man, that Nixon fellow. Great man.>> Well, Nixon was both a GREAT man and a GREAT president versus the born-again, former? drug-using hypocrite in the White House now. And the space program has been gutted by every president since Nixon. One of the very few things I can give Bush is he came out with a plan to get us back on the moon permanently and off to Mars ... but you watch that get gutted by the next President, no matter what party they hail from. Which would be fine if the money went to healthcare, education, the environment or more E-Tickets ... but it won't either. It never does! But, yeah, the shuttle program was flawed to begin with. Much like most of the attractions Disney has been turning out of late.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Bad analogy with NASA. As jonvn mentions much of their problem has to do with funding. And even though Shuttle technology is ancient, more real science has been accomplished with the shuttle than was ever accomplished by an Apollo mission. Sure, the stuff they do isn't as cool as watching people jump around on the moon, but it is just as important.>> The shuttle was a bad idea to begin with. We've been very lucky we've only blown up two multi-billion ships and killed 14 people. And, sure, lots of science has come out of it. But how much would have come out of having a base on the moon for the past 20-25 years and being on Mars by now? But back to the subject at hand ... <<As for WDI living off past glories... the guy with the Frozen Brain thinks The Spirit has a brain that is rotting from the heat and humidity (we will refer to it in the future as Mush Brain). Animal Kingdom Theme Park in its entirety is equal to anything WDI has come up with before. As far as an individual attraction goes, I'd put Kilimanjaro Safaris up against any of them.>> I think you're missing the point as your attempt to thaw out. Yeah, DAK is great. I have to say that even if I didn't believe it because Joe Rohde scares me ;-) But other than the example you sited above, which I agree with, what is new and ground-breaking ant bar-setting at DAK? Everest may have a an uber-kewl Yeti AA (don't ask Joe where the money went for the other one you don't see) that is state-of-the-art, but as an attraction how does it set the bar higher. Hell, we have some folks here who would rather ride Space Mountain. You aren't going to tell me Dinosaur sets a new standard or the Bug's 3D movie? All they do is work off of what has been done before. I'd say the greatest thing DAK does to set itself apart is in the way it shows its animals on display. And KS is the best example of that and the best E-Ticket to open at WDW in the last decade!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "And KS is the best example of that and the best E-Ticket to open at WDW in the last decade!" Amen!!!! The coolness of DAK is the theming and animal attractions.
