Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't know who A-Rod is. I imagine I really ought to.>> A NY Yankee who just signed the richest contract of any athlete in the history of sports -- $300,000,000. And I new him when he was just a great prep player in Miami in the early 90s. But no one is worth that kind of money ... and he did a laughable interview with Katy Couric on 60 Minutes Sunday night. "And I'd much rather hear it than your opinions about lazy morbidly obese Americans or even Al Lutz (although it can be entertaining!)" <<I talk about all sorts of things. There are only so many times you can argue over whether or not SSE is an OmniMover.>> You'll notice I've show remarkable restraint and steered clear of that thread. <<But I know quite a bit about Al, as well. I know you don't believe me...>> Oh, no. I do believe you. Really. And I think your take on many 'Al issues' is quite accurate. I just don't want to hear about the man that much. But happily that talk has all died down ... and since we probably won't see an Al column until '08 now, maybe it will stay that way!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<For Spirit of 74, since DAK has a tenth annivesary next year, can we look forward to any major new attractions in the next couple of years? Have you heard of any new rides/lands etc.?>> The only definite thing coming is the Rivers of Light parade. It was supposed to debut for the 10th, but I've heard that it's likely to debut in '09. They want to keep folks in the park after dark and Everest, Yak and Yeti and this amazing production will likely do that ... and Joe Rohde isn't the type to rest on his laurels (and I'm not talking about Tony's secretary), but he's been occupied with an EPCOT project lately I guess the answer is: yes, you'll see new stuff down the road at DAK, but not in the immediate future. The Studios is were most of the WDW action will be in the next few years followed by EPCOT.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney IS doing better in upgrading their rooms, though.>> They are and should be commended. And at all ends of the spectrum. From the Port Orleans rooms to all of the MK deluxes, which now really deserve close to the rates Disney charges ... and even the motels like Music and Sports have upgraded their decor and quality. That's something really important to keeping this Spirit on property and spending!
Originally Posted By nbodyhome I didn't think the Port Orleans rooms had received the new upgrade yet? I know CSR is slated for next year. I still don't think they are worth what the regular price is, but it certainly makes the rooms worth closer to their discounted price
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Well.. I don't stay in 2nd rate hotels, so I would not know about anything below the level of the Wilderness Lodge.. However, I hate it that Disney caters to the value crowd. I think it's bad enough the Orlando market has become "value" as a whole.. or else, the busier carriers at the Int't Airport would still be the ones that still offer overseas services, as opposed to domestic greyhound schedules..
Originally Posted By MPierce >> The only definite thing coming is the Rivers of Light parade. It was supposed to debut for the 10th, but I've heard that it's likely to debut in '09. They want to keep folks in the park after dark and Everest, Yak and Yeti and this amazing production will likely do that ... and Joe Rohde isn't the type to rest on his laurels (and I'm not talking about Tony's secretary), but he's been occupied with an EPCOT project lately << You're taunting us, aren't you?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Well.. I don't stay in 2nd rate hotels, so I would not know about anything below the level of the Wilderness Lodge.. << You've always proven you were a gentleman of refined taste.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Well.. I don't stay in 2nd rate hotels, so I would not know about anything below the level of the Wilderness Lodge.. > Me either. I don't hang with 2nd rate people, or eat 2nd rate food. I don't wear 2nd rate clothes, or shoes either. I'm a 1st rate guy. Can I hang out with you TDLFAN?
Originally Posted By jonvn "A NY Yankee who just signed the richest contract of any athlete in the history of sports -- $300,000,000. " That is absolutely revolting.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I hate it that Disney caters to the value crowd. " I have long said that they charge way too little for the APs. Up until the early 90s, the only AP you could get was equivalent to a premium now, and would probably cost about $500 equivalent to today's entrance fees. What they have done is gone after the trailer park crowd, and have edged the place more towards the swap meet zone. But the thing is that they have to make money. The APs being this low cost is an indicator of entrance fees not making them the money so much as the hourly per person rate of money spent while on the property. People who have less money still have money. They also deserve to enjoy entertainment as much as anyone else. So it's kind of a double edged sword.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << What they have done is gone after the trailer park crowd, and have edged the place more towards the swap meet zone. >> I disagree. 20 years ago, credit was not so easy. People didn't have 10 different Mastercards in their wallet. Home equity lines of credit were actually used to make home improvements instead of paying for vacations, cars, and living expenses. People used to save far more than they do now. The availability of easy credit puts money in people's hands that would otherwise not be there. Disney simply has a product that people are willing to spend money on and they've priced their product according to the profit margins they're willing to accept and the willingness of guests to spend a certain amount of money. Whether guests can really afford it or not is irrelevant. I don't think Disney cares who is attending their parks. As long as the credit card passes the credit check, you can buy the tickets. There are examples of low priced APs and the like, but that is largely a symptom of a competitive market place where parks like Universal and Knott's run promotions that essentially give away a year's worth of admission for the price of a single day (or something close to that). Disney is still higher priced than the competition in that arena, but I think their hand has been forced somewhat by the alternative entertainment venues marketing to the value crowd.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Can I hang out with you TDLFAN?<< Sorry Jim. I just don't have much in common with people remotely connected with Pasadena. >>A NY Yankee who just signed the richest contract of any athlete in the history of sports -- $300,000,000.<< Oh well... he can now affort all of those enhancing drugs they so much love.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I have long said that they charge way too little for the APs.<< I think so too. TDR charges just over $600 for their premium AP, which I pay gladly for since the that price matches the quality OLC pays to give their guests. As for WDW... Hmmm...Not so sure we can blame it all on the APers.. especially since the benefits that used to be offered with those are nearly non-existant now. However, Jonvn..I wonder what's your opinion on the fact that people who are not APers, are only paying mere couple of $$ more per day after they purchase a multiday passport with 4 days or more..
Originally Posted By jonvn "..I wonder what's your opinion on the fact that people who are not APers, are only paying mere couple of $$ more per day after they purchase a multiday passport with 4 days or more.." It depends on the price point. But, if I stay 4 days, or stay 40 days, it's not that much difference in cost?
Originally Posted By mousermerf *boggles* Since when is a WDW AP really cheap? They're not extortionately priced, no, but they're certainly not cheap. They're pricey enough that many people do have to stop and seriously consider if they need/want them any given year. DL AP's are dirt cheap - which is ridiculous, but generally WDW AP's are not. A regular WDW AP is $477.12 for the first year. The premiums are $616.64 so neither is cheap. The FL-resident rates do offer a discount, but it's not cheap. $372.75 regular and $488.84 premium. The real deal is the FL-resident seasonal pass, at $244.95, but it has tons of blackouts. Now, compare that to DLR's APs.. it gets ridiculous. The $379 premium AP is the top-tier and it allows 365 days access and is roughly the same price as the discounted FL-res AP at WDW. Everything else costs less - far less. The $129 AP weekday-only AP should not exist. That just promotes the hang-out folks who use the park like it's a mall. Something you have to realize when looking at pricing for WDW's AP versus DL is that WDW does not have a real direct local vicinity. WDW's largest local group is actually Tampa/St. Petersburg (where i live). So, at the higher price point for the cheapest AP (compared to DL), WDW is not getting people who really "hang out" at the parks. At DL, you have people who pay far less and then end up using the park weekly if not more often because it's sometimes within walking distance. It explains why on many forums you'll find people who live within minutes of DLR frequently but most WDW fans visit years and the "locals" who post photo updates and such tend to visit once a week - at the most - and no one is there all the time like at Disneyland. I'm probably one of the people who frequents WDW the most of the online fanboy community, i live an hour away in Tampa, and the main reason i visit is because the UG has me there doing research. In my visits to DLR, i frequently saw the same faces over the period of a week or two. The same people sitting around doing crafts at the Bengal BBQ, the same folks chatting at the Cove Bar. In my time at WDW, I only see the same people on rare occasions - most if not all of those work for websites/guidebooks.
Originally Posted By mousermerf To clarify the 4 day versus 10 day.. 4 day, no hopping, no water parks, expires soon: $225.78 10 day, no hopping, no water parks, expires soon: $239.63 To make that a 10 day which doesn't expire (which is the most likely purchase) is an extra $180. So, yes, you can goto WDW cheap for ten consecutive days versus only 4. Most people wont.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "A NY Yankee who just signed the richest contract of any athlete in the history of sports -- $300,000,000. " <<That is absolutely revolting.>> Yes, Jon, but WDI could waste that much money at lunch ... or on lunch ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Since when is a WDW AP really cheap?>> Well, if you're a charter AP holder (I wonder how many of us are still alive and haven't dropped them as Disney has dropped its quality) they're only $285 a year. I spend one four-day weekend a year at WDW and I feel I've gotten all the value out it ... and I spend a whole lot more time than that there! <<They're not extortionately priced, no, but they're certainly not cheap. They're pricey enough that many people do have to stop and seriously consider if they need/want them any given year. >> AP sales have gone through the roof in the past decade due to places like this. Before the mid-90s almost all WDW APers were Floridians or folks from the SE USA ... now, they're from all over the planet as online folks have explained the virtues/values of getting one for disocunted room rates, ability to buy the DDE of late, etc ... So, I believe that for most people ... even at their highest price-point they still deliver value. <<DL AP's are dirt cheap - which is ridiculous, but generally WDW AP's are not. >> No. They are not. And they keep going up because TDA wants the PAP at $499 ASAP. The same one that was underpriced at $199 a few years ago. I believe, after the most recent increase, a DL PAP is $379 ... I think that's about close to its true value-point right now. But there will be an increase in the VERY near future, so anyone thinking of buying should head to their local Disney Store. $399 is right around the corner! <<A regular WDW AP is $477.12 for the first year. The premiums are $616.64 so neither is cheap. The FL-resident rates do offer a discount, but it's not cheap. $372.75 regular and $488.84 premium. The real deal is the FL-resident seasonal pass, at $244.95, but it has tons of blackouts.>> Yeah. But it's still a great deal IMHO. And that started as the old Three Season Salute in the 1980s when WDW gave Florida residents January, May and September, which at the time were three of the slowest four (October was slightly slower than January) months of the year. <<Now, compare that to DLR's APs.. it gets ridiculous. The $379 premium AP is the top-tier and it allows 365 days access and is roughly the same price as the discounted FL-res AP at WDW. Everything else costs less - far less.>> Yes. But they all have blackout dates ... and they all make you pay for parking (or add it for $57 a year) ... and the discounts are smaller or non-existent (merchandise). <<The $129 AP weekday-only AP should not exist. That just promotes the hang-out folks who use the park like it's a mall.>> I completely disagree. While I don't like the 'this is our park pack-like behavior' of many APers, the parks would be close to desolate, even now, sometimes during the year without them. They spend when they are there too. <<Something you have to realize when looking at pricing for WDW's AP versus DL is that WDW does not have a real direct local vicinity. WDW's largest local group is actually Tampa/St. Petersburg (where i live). >> Well, I'll disagree with that. Orlando and the local area ... heck, everything within a 75-mile radius is considered local, has a huge number of people and a huge number of APers. <<It explains why on many forums you'll find people who live within minutes of DLR frequently but most WDW fans visit years and the "locals" who post photo updates and such tend to visit once a week - at the most - and no one is there all the time like at Disneyland. >> Anyone who spends all their time at theme parks is in need of serious mental health intervention.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>It depends on the price point. But, if I stay 4 days, or stay 40 days, it's not that much difference in cost?<< I guess if you sleep in your car at the nearest rest stop on Interstate 4, then NO, there won't be that much difference in price. But seems to me many would prefer to drop the money at the Pop Century.. and that is what makes it a pricey deal. Besides... when it comes down to it... it's not a matter of Disney wanting to offer extraordinary quality entertainment for the least amount of money. It's more about doing anything they can to keep Ma and Pa from the midwest into going to the competing theme parks in the area, and for that... Disney will sell it's soul to the devil..and offer the passports cheap if needs be. They are not really doing us the favor, just sticking it to Shamu and Universal.
