Originally Posted By DouglasDubh If I were lying, then it would be a simple matter to just show the truth. That posters are compelled to continually tell me I'm wrong, rather than just pointing to the truth, shows that I am not wrong. President Clinton fired all the US attorneys, President Bush did not, and to say otherwise is inaccurate and misleading.
Originally Posted By jonvn Doug. You just denied something that was plainly said. Why don't you stop this sort of thing already. You're just making your arguments appear weaker. "President Clinton fired all the US attorneys, President Bush did not, and to say otherwise is inaccurate and misleading. " It doesn't really matter. What matters is the reason. If Bush fired ANY attorney for prosecuting or failing to prosecute people due to political reasons, that's inappropriate. Gonzales is gone not because just Democrats felt he was doing a bad job, but Republicans, too. He had no support. He appeared weak and evasive in his testimony (note how well being evasive worked for HIM) and did not appear to be effective in his job of protecting and defending the laws of this country. So he's gone.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <President Clinton fired all the US attorneys, President Bush did not, and to say otherwise is inaccurate and misleading.> As so often, you are technically correct, but trying to pretend that Clinton replacing them all right away, and Bush replacing all but a handful right away, and then that small handful within a few months of taking office, are different from each other in any practical way. THAT's what's misleading, and at this point I'd have to say intentionally so.
Originally Posted By inlandemporer "That posters are compelled to continually tell me I'm wrong, rather than just pointing to the truth, shows that I am not wrong. " Dabob2 did exactly that in post 62, and you still rejected it. Ironically, you were wrong about Dabob2 not admitting when he was wrong. He admitted it flat out, you're still evading. Man up, why don't you?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Why don't you stop this sort of thing already.> Because you're continuing to distort what happened, and Dabob is continuing to pretend he didn't misrepresent what happened, and inlandemperor is continuing to be Dabob's chorus.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Because you're continuing to distort what happened" OK, so you say you are going to continue to lie and evade because I distort what has happened. Like I said, you only make your own arguments weaker. You're only hurting yourself and your viewpoint. I didn't really expect this to sink in. It hasn't in the various other times people have tried to tell you this, nicely, not nicely, and everything in between. If you think you are coming across as someone with ideas and arguments to support them, you're not. You're making your viewpoints appear to be propped up on base dishonesty. If that is your intention, that you are actually a very "liberal" type of person who is trying to discredit the right wing viewpoint, then you couldn't be doing a better job. If that is not your intention, then you are throwing away a good chance at explaining your viewpoint in an effective and convincing manner. Perhaps not everyone will agree with your conclusions, but they will at least consider your ideas. Right now, you're just a brick in the corner, and no one expects to hear reason from you anymore. You've been told this by many people now. But if that's how you want to come across, and how you want your viewpoint expressed, that's up to you. You aren't making anyone think anything you say has any validity.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <OK, so you say you are going to continue to lie and evade because I distort what has happened.> I'm not lying or evading. Why can't you just talk about the issue instead of attacking me?
Originally Posted By jonvn Because you are lying and evading. Sorry. That's how it appears. If several people on here are telling you this, maybe you should consider that is how you are coming across. I may be a jerk, and people dislike my opinions, but they are expressed honestly with what I hope are valid reasons. When someone tells me I'm wrong, I'll either drop it, or say I'm wrong. It happens. I'm not omniscient, and if someone can show me information that indicates I am incorrect, it is my goal to alter my viewpoint or to drop my persuit of an idea. Like I said, if you want to come across as dishonest, that's up to you. But it does not make anything you say worth hearing. Once you get a reputation for saying absolutely anything in order to support your comments, people are going to start simply dismissing anything you say outright. Most already have, and tell you this directly anymore. This is why people aren't all that interested in talking about the issues with you any further and are now simply "insulting" you. You've shown yourself to not be interested in discussing anything, but merely evading, obfuscating, and lying. So this is what it has come down to for you. This is why almost no one bothers talking to you, and no one bothers trying to discuss things with you. The only thing you've managed to "win" here is disrespect for your viewpoint. That's a shame, because it is not an invalid viewpoint, but it is presented in an invalid manner. You can change this, but you have to be willing to discuss things openly and honestly. And if you don't want to do that, you're going to have to just accept that people are not going to listen to you hear, and not going to respect you or your statements.
Originally Posted By jonvn Oh gee...this needs an edit feature. Well, the idea comes across, I hope, in the garbled mess.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <When someone tells me I'm wrong, I'll either drop it, or say I'm wrong.> You're wrong.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Because you're continuing to distort what happened, and Dabob is continuing to pretend he didn't misrepresent what happened, and inlandemperor is continuing to be Dabob's chorus.> So the three of us "distort," "misrepresent," and are a mere "chorus" somehow? And yet the real deal is there for anyone who wants to see it. inlandemporer doesn't even post here that often and he's on to your schtick. Seriously, Douglas, jonvn is saying in 86 and 88 what I was trying to tell you a couple of weeks ago, and you dismissed outright. If enough people are telling you the same thing, you might want to consider there's something to it. And it is a shame, because you're not representing your viewpoint very well.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <And yet the real deal is there for anyone who wants to see it.> And it shows I'm right, despite your continued faulty appeal to authority. If you can show that my statement was wrong, then do it. But to call something I said "misleading" when it wasn't doesn't make me wrong, no matter how many people claim it does. Why don't you just stick to the issues instead of constantly making personal attacks?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <And it shows I'm right, despite your continued faulty appeal to authority.> No, it doesn't. <If you can show that my statement was wrong, then do it. > I showed that your statement that I don't admit when I'M wrong was in fact wrong. That of course was a separate statement. The thing on the attorneys was misleading. It attempts to say that Clinton and Bush approached the replacement of their predecessors' US attorneys completely differently, when in practical terms it was nearly identical. <Why don't you just stick to the issues instead of constantly making personal attacks?> I don't. I pointed out your STATEMENT was misleading, because it was. And the personal stuff in #91 (and possibly jonvn's just before, though I can't speak for him) are more tough love than an attack. Seriously. I want a better debating partner, not someone who evades and parses, and didn't used to do that so much. I want the old DD back. But one can only lead a horse to water.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder My patience is shot. More and more people are going to needlessly die in a senseless war because there are still sycophants who prop up this Administration. They defend Bush and the Iraq war and claim it's winnable, they call Gonzales competent, they endorse Cheney's hilarious defense of his office, saying it isn't in the Executive branch (or worse yet, claim he never said it), all the while insisting WMDs were not the primary reason for invading Iraq. At this point, anyone who does this has become a co-conspirator and is just as guilty of murder and a threat to peace as any terrorist. For me, this has gone on long enough. I'm not tolerating it anymore.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Why don't you just stick to the issues instead of constantly making personal attacks? " I told you why people talk to you the way they do. So you can stop asking this now, because you've gotten an answer. "For me, this has gone on long enough. I'm not tolerating it anymore." I agree, but what do you plan on doing about it?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <I told you why people talk to you the way they do.> And I told you you were wrong. But instead of either admitting it, or dropping it, you're insisting that you're right. I guess you were lying earlier.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But instead of either admitting it, or dropping it, you're insisting that you're right. I guess you were lying earlier." No, you're just taking a badly worded sentence out of context, and you know it. I didn't mean "say I was wrong," I meant "SHOW I was wrong." In fact, I say that a couple sentences later. And that's an obvious thing, so you're purposefully being dishonest, and the time I spent trying to talk to you like an adult was wasted, once again. Thanks for showing everyone what sort of person you are. I already knew it, but I wanted to give you another chance. You can't even figure out when people are trying to be decent to you.
Originally Posted By jonvn Aside from that, I'm not wrong. But hey, for some reason they let you troll on here. I'd not allow it.