Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/08/rudy-giuliani-we-had-no-d_n_416033.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...033.html</a> Guess 9/11 isn't an attack. And Richard Reid. And the anthrax killer. But a guy lighting his underwear on fire and then being stopped definitely qualifies as an "attack" under Obama. Could these guys be any more transparent?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The goal here is to suggest that George Bush was ever-vigilant while Barack Obama is asleep at the switch. Sadly, ridiculous whoppers like this repeated often enough worm their way into the mindset of lazy thinkers and soon become "fact" in their own minds. This all plays very nicely into the terrorists' ultimate goal. They know destroying buildings and killing innocent civilians will never make impact on its own. But this back and forth in-fighting is what the true goal of terrorism is - to sow seeds of doubt and suspiscion and blame amongst all of us, while they laugh and figure out what to stir up next. It sickens me that less than a decade after 9/11, it's become nothing but a political punchline for too many politicians. Even has-beens like Guiliani.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy The ironic part is that President Obama has pretty much maintained every aspect of the previous administration's "War on Terror." We've yet to close Guantanamo Bay. We've escalated fighting in Afghanistan. The Patriot Act is still in full effect. What is the prescription of folks like Giuliani and Cheney when we haven't really deviated one iota from the cookbook of the last administration?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan What doesn't add up? Guiliani ignores things that happened on Bush's watch (things HE WASN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR, BY THE WAY!) and starts trying to stir people up about Obama. For political reasons, nothing more. Here. This is where we're at in this country. Or at least where we'll be, if we keep listening to these lunkheads. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5u-QVk3PFU&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Here. This is where we're at in this country. Or at least where we'll be, if we keep listening to these lunkheads.<< Great episode. I fear we're a dying culture. Or at least a changing culture, and not for the better. We had a nice heyday from 1945 to 2000ish. We valued education, hard work, personal responsibility, and helping those in need out. I'm no dummy - I know 20th century American history pretty well and understand that's an oversimplified assessment. But in general, it's accurate. Now, we're a very selfish, me-first culture. We don't value education or information in the slightest. Our hyper-religious culture has led us to believe that knowledge and information is easy, comes from what we want and what we believe, instead of from truth. It takes no discipline, no understanding of sociology, psychology, human behavior, ethics, etc. Instead, the Bible tells me what's right and wrong and if I believe it, it must be true. In short, we're a culture of truthiness instead of a culture of truth. And it is poisoning and decimating us. I fear there is no return, and wonder what I can do to protect my children from such vapidity.
Originally Posted By DAR <<What doesn't add up? Guiliani ignores things that happened on Bush's watch (things HE WASN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR, BY THE WAY!) and starts trying to stir people up about Obama. For political reasons, nothing more.>> I was being facetious.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo ecdc, you have now articulated why I have decided to stay in Europe to raise mine. It is far from perfect, and indeed some of this stupidity is universal. But like the Matrix, once you open your eyes, you can never fit in or feel comfortable again.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It sickens me that less than a decade after 9/11, it's become nothing but a political punchline for too many politicians. Even has-beens like Guiliani.> "Even?" "EVEN????" Though I admired his comments in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 (mostly because they were so measure and un-Rudy-like), it didn't take long until he became the biggest "9/11 whore" this country has ever seen, arguably even worse than Bush and Cheney. I don't know how much this made the news outside of NY, but he actually argued that NYC should change its law on the fly for "emergency" reasons and allow him to remain mayor "for the duration" as he was apparently the only person who could keep the city safe. And remember Biden's great line? All Guiliani needs to make a sentence are a noun, a verb, and "9/11."
Originally Posted By ecdc >>ecdc, you have now articulated why I have decided to stay in Europe to raise mine. It is far from perfect, and indeed some of this stupidity is universal. << And all cultures have always had that. It's part of human nature, perhaps even necessary for survival. Studies have shown that even chimpanzees engage in cognitive dissonance. Once they make a selection, they devalue the other choice in order to reinforce their own self-confidence about their choice. It's part of who we are. But it's taken an extreme in the USA right now. It's so vitriolic and hateful - mostly from the crowd who thinks they're the most Christian. Honestly, I'm not sure what to think anymore. I go through periods of optimism and then periods of pessimism so dark it's near depression. I don't think these people - the teabaggers, the "If Obama Cured Cancer It'd be a Muslim Conspiracy" crowd, the atheists are pure evil crowd, etc. - are a majority. I don't think most Americans are like that. But we have an ugly combination of people who love Glenn Beck, crazy person, and people who just don't care. Together, they make up a good portion of the country and informed, decent people who are trying their damndest to save the country are just no match for this brutal combination of zealotry and apathy. Until the sane among us either rally the apathetic or get as crazy as the far right, our country is doomed. But like I said on another thread, truth is gray, complex, nuanced, and multi-faceted. It takes discipline and good faith to understand it. Myth and truthiness are black and white, easy, requires no education, and is intoxicating. It's why their side is far more fired up than our side. It's why they take to the streets with pictures of Obama as Hitler, while a few of us rally with signs that say "Healthcare Reform Now." They talk about tyranny and socialism and have no freaking clue what those words mean. What do you do with that kind of stupidity and ignorance? I really don't know what to think or to do about it. How do you save a dying culture when education is the key but so many people are openly hostile to information that contradicts their worldview? It can't be done.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Just keep in mind that just because those are the folks making the loudest noise, doesn't mean they win elections. Last time around, this mindset was shown the door. They didn't call them teabaggers then, but it's the same mob. Opponents of Obama have overplayed every single hand every single day since he took office. The most minor thing is whipped up into hysteria by the talk radio/teabagger crowd. I don't think it's that most people don't care. It's that most people see it for what it is, don't engage with debating the nonsense until voting day. At least, I hope so.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I don't think it's that most people don't care. It's that most people see it for what it is, don't engage with debating the nonsense until voting day.<< You are way more optimistic than me, which probably isn't a bad thing. But remember, most Americans don't vote. So while I agree that these people alone aren't bringing us down, there's this unholy synergy of zealotry, apathy, media, celebrity culture, and religion that I see doing it to us. Remember how Tiger Woods scored as one of the most admired men in America? It was because he was the lead story on the evening news. Americans didn't care what he'd done, they just saw him with all the pretty news lights. The news media puts an evolutionary biologist on TV alongside a southern baptist preacher and they talk about "intelligent design," all done under the guise of balance. If that's balance, we're screwed. But it happens constantly. Americans like our heroes and villains, our two sides. So we're presented with two choices - like the preacher or the scientist - but it's a false choice.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>You are way more optimistic than me<< Not really. Just whistling past the graveyard. >>Americans like our heroes and villains, our two sides. So we're presented with two choices - like the preacher or the scientist - but it's a false choice.<< Well, that's true. I don't know that that's anything new, however, but it's certainly amped way up in the last 20+ years. But I wonder, is that unique to America? Isn't it pretty much human nature to divide things into good v. bad whenever possible? People in general seem uncomfortable with things that exist in shades of gray. Have a movie with a story that doesn't fully resolve itself and answer for sure whether they live happily ever after or not, and it'll flop every time. But complex issues are even more confounding. Climate change. International relations. Economics. All stuff that isn't easy to boil down to yes/no, good/bad choices, and yet people try to anyway. And if they can make a lot of money doing so, all the more reason to try.
Originally Posted By mawnck Interesting video interview with Ted Koppel ... who points out that the underwear bomber was "an absolute triumph for Al Qaeda." He failed in his mission, but we are acting EXACTLY like we would if he had blown up the plane. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8447399.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/pro...7399.stm</a>
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I fear we're a dying culture. Or at least a changing culture, and not for the better." You better not watch "Jersey Shore" then. You'll want to pack your bags and move overseas for sure after one episode.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***He failed in his mission, but we are acting EXACTLY like we would if he had blown up the plane.*** Ya think? <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20100108/us-airplanes-diverted/" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...iverted/</a> ***Two F-16s were launched at 11:44 a.m. to catch up with AirTran Airways Flight 39 from Atlanta to San Francisco after a report that an intoxicated passenger had locked himself in a bathroom, the Colorado-based North American Aerospace Defense Command said. The jets arrived over Colorado Springs Airport as the captain – who AirTran said had decided to divert the plane – landed there around noon, NORAD spokeswoman Stacey Knott said.*** ***Also Friday, a Hawaii-bound flight had to change course and land in Los Angeles after a man was accused of harassing a woman. The man was removed from the jet that departed Las Vegas early Friday.*** ***Last Friday, January 1, another Northwest flight from Detroit, Michigan to Orlando, Florida was diverted to Nashville, Tennessee after a suspicious package was found aboard. The pilot diverted “out of an abundance of caution.” All the passengers have got off the plane before the package was discovered to be just a Christmas ornament. The passengers re-boarded and arrived at Orlando three hours delayed.*** Read more: <a href="http://dailycontributor.com/flights-getting-diverted-out-of-safety/10162/#ixzz0c52g71Pc" target="_blank">http://dailycontributor.com/fl...c52g71Pc</a> Under Creative Commons License: Attribution <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/6947753/Air-marshals-rush-to-stop-dozens-of-suicide-attacks.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...cks.html</a> ***Hundreds of air marshals have been diverted onto inbound flights to the United States amid fears a dozen or more terrorists are preparing suicide missions.*** <a href="http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/news/local/81020097.html" target="_blank">http://www.northlandsnewscente...097.html</a> ***The Duluth International Airport was evacuated today after a piece of unattended baggage was found in the terminal area. The evacuation impacted the entire airport, and lasted for approximately two hours. Roads around the airport were blocked off as the Duluth Airguard was called in to investigate.*** <a href="http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/auckland-airport-evacuated-3325364" target="_blank">http://tvnz.co.nz/national-new...-3325364</a> ***The Auckland International Airport was evacuated twice on Wednesday night. Both evacuations took place within the space of two hours. The evacuations have been ruled false alarms.*** <a href="http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/January/Part-of-Minneapolis-Airport-Evacuated-Amid-Scare/" target="_blank">http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/...d-Scare/</a> ***MINNEAPOLIS - A spokesman for Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport says nothing suspicious has been found in a bag that prompted a partial evacuation of the airport. Spokesman Patrick Hogan of the Metropolitan Airports Commission says a bomb-sniffing dog found the bag on a luggage carousel during a routine inspection Tuesday. He says the bag was never on a plane and was only a placeholder typically left by airline employees to signal other employees that the airplane is empty.*** <a href="http://rawstory.com/2010/01/containers-honey-spark-california-airport-evacuation/" target="_blank">http://rawstory.com/2010/01/co...cuation/</a> ***A California airport was shut down and evacuated Tuesday after authorities claimed to have discovered "TNT" in luggage. Instead of a high-powered explosive, the substance turned out to be honey, owned by 31-year-old Francisco Ramirez, a gardener from Milwaukee. The man was taken into custody at Meadows Field Airport in Bakersfield after a security incident was announced at 7:30 a.m. Flights were suspended and terminals were evacuated. Two Transportation Security Administration employees reported feeling ill after smelling fumes from the honey, which was discovered in five Gatoraid bottles. Both TSA screeners were rushed to Meadows Field Hospital.***
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In the second such incident in three days, fighter jets escorted a diverted commercial flight on Friday after an unruly passenger caused alarm onboard. The military sent up two F-16s in response to reports of an unruly passenger aboard AirTran Flight 39, the North American Aerospace Defense Command said in a statement.*** <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/01/08/unruly.passenger/index.html" target="_blank">http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TR...dex.html</a> This is becoming idiotic. Fighter jets scrambled twice in 3 days because of bitchy passengers? Return to the airport and get rid of the passenger? Sure. Scramble the jets? What the hell for!? In both instances, the pilots were in control of the aircrafts and no attempt was made to seize control (nor even the threat of such a thing). So they locked themselves in the bathroom, so what? If they had a bomb or something what the hell were the fighters going to do about it, shoot down the plane first just in case? WT!!??
Originally Posted By mele <<You better not watch "Jersey Shore" then. You'll want to pack your bags and move overseas for sure after one episode.>> Hm, I had a similar thought after seeing a few minutes of "Jersey Shore".
