Originally Posted By MPierce >> I actually feel very sorry for her. But I don't see how her medical issues in regards to treatment are Diney's problem. << They aren't Disney's problem. However denying her access to the ToT without proper cause could be. I don't know the truth of what happened. However I do know that Disney's past practices definetly leave a wide open gap for a lawsuit. Remember WDW was the one that issued the disability pass in the first place. I am starting to become an expert on people with disabilities at WDW. I will be posting on this matter also.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I am not a doctor, but my father is a cardio-pulmanary specialist, and my moms a RN. I did discuss this lady with them, and they were the one who pointed out that yes, it can help break apart the adhesions, but it by far the most dangerous method of dealing with them they have ever heard of. My dad said that the fact that the ride CAN pull them apart IS the reason she should NEVER get on it. The possibility of rupturing an organ is quite real. And if she ruptured an organ on the ride, she would bleed to death before they could even get her someplace to crack her open and stop it. << Very interesting facts, and your parents are definetly more than qualified to comment on it. I'm sure both sides will have expert testimony in the case.
Originally Posted By mele Even if it was the only thing that helped her, it doesn't mean that Disney is obligated to allow her to ride it. And if she abused any cast members, they have every right to block her from coming to the park. Personally, I think it was not very bright to go to message boards with her story, *if* it was really her posting.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Even if it was the only thing that helped her, it doesn't mean that Disney is obligated to allow her to ride it. And if she abused any cast members, they have every right to block her from coming to the park. Personally, I think it was not very bright to go to message boards with her story, *if* it was really her posting. << Yes they are obligated to allow her to ride it if she paid admission to the park. If they have given her a guest with disabilities pass they have to give a very good reason why it is no longer valid. They have to prove that she verbally or physically abused other guest or Disney CM's, and that all the other people who do this have received a similar ban. They will have to prove this in a court of law, and there's no way around that unless they settle out of court. The ADA is taken very seriously by the court system as was recently proven when plantiff's wanting to use segways in the Disney Parks had to sue Disney over the issue, and won. Most people on the discussioin boards were naturally on the side of Disney, and also thought the plantiffs didn't have a legal leg to stand on. They were all wrong about that case too.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I can understand how the dropping motion might help pressure in someone's back, but wouldn't the quick rising motion have the opposite effect? I feel like it could very easily cause major problems if something got a little loose on the way down, and then wedged between two other things on the way back up. This could happen to anybody, but someone with known back problems seems to be at an especially high risk. Disney does a very good job of posting warnings before attractions (even mild ones like the Barnstormer). It is up to guests to read and follow them to the best of their abilities. There are always exceptions of people who don't know about their conditions (Mission:Space incidents), but in this case, the woman clearly knew about it, and was disobeying the signage. As much as a jury might want to side with her, it seems like Disney covered it's bases pretty well before she ever showed up, saying that people with conditions like her's shouldn't be there in the first place.
Originally Posted By mele <,Yes they are obligated to allow her to ride it if she paid admission to the park.>> No, that's not always true. I pay for my kids to get into Disneyland but that doesn't mean they can ride every single ride. Private companies aren't obligated to give services just because someone feels they "need" them. It depends on the facts surrounding this particular case but you are wrong when you say that Disney HAS to do this. You don't know that. Disney is private property...there are laws about what they have to provide and this doesn't come anywhere near any of those laws. Disney isn't obligated to put themselves at risk if they felt that it was unsafe for her to ride. Maybe they felt they were being set up for a lawsuit? Stranger things have happened. And even if the decision is wrong, she doesn't have the right to react as badly as she wants when she is restricted from something. She might have been able to solve this by not mistreating people (if that part of Disney's store is true). Again, it's the details of this case that will decide...not blanket statements about her deserving whatever she wants from Disney. Also, what is she suing for? Money? Access to the ride? What? She doesn't deserve money for this. At most, she should be allowed to go back to her normal riding habits after signing a disclaimer that she will not sue for any damages from the repeated riding.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney FerretAfros -- the woman doesn't have back problems. She has a problems with adhesions, her internal organs adhere to eachother. She gave a link to a website and it's actually fascinating. It can be caused from abdominal surgeries, but can occur on it's own too and I guess is quite painful. If you've ever heard of endometriosis, it's similar to that, only can be widespread throughout the organs.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Disney is neither qualified nor license to practice medicine & is therefore not obligated to allow any of their rides to be used for theraputic purposes. This is about a multitude of issues with the least being medical. I have every empathy for individuals suffering with debilitating pain but that is not really what's going on here IMO. If you are a guest in someone's home it behooves you to behave in a polite & appropriate manner. If you can not do this then you have no right to expect to be allowed to return. Disney may or may not have many faults but for the most part they are certainly not stupid about legal issues. If they didn't have a leg to stand on there would have been a sincere apology with some kind of comp. They wouldn't risk this kind of publicity. I'm not even going to entertain whether or not she has a real healthcare professional that would not only advise her to pursue this as therapy but would actually provide her with a Rx or letter presenting it as legitamate treatment. This woman has turned herself into a huge liability for Disney. If something happens to her on the ride now they can't use the "how could we have known" defense. It will be said that Disney allowed her to ride knowing she had a diagnosed health issue. Oh & BTW the only thing I see the hand in this case being adhered to is Disney's checkbook. Now if she only seeks being allowed to return to the park & doesn't ask for a single penny in compensation I will take that last comment back. I wonder if this thread will go on as long as the previous one. And before you see me as callous & or a Disney sympathizer I am neither. I do know just a "little" about healthcare & am anything but uncaring. What I am tho is someone that is weary of the epidemic of "entitlement fever" sweeping this country/planet.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros If it is in fact the dropping and rising motion that helps her feel better, I wonder why she decided to go with Tower of Terror. Dr Doom's Freefall at Islands of Adventure across town gives you the exact same motions, and usually has a much shorter wait. It also has significantly more dropping time compared to the total ride time. Add to that the fact that Universal AP's are way cheaper than WDW AP's, and it really makes you wonder if this is actually the best way for this lady to get this sort of 'treatment'. There's a faster, more precise, and cheaper alternative on the other side of town, yet she wants to do the one that has waits several times longer. From a medical standpoint, I can't see how that would make for a good argument.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> You don't know that. Disney is private << Being a private company means absolutely nothing when it comes to discrimanation, and the ADA. They knew the woman had a disability, they issued her the card and they knew she was riding ToT, she had to present the card at the ride. That's a fact.
Originally Posted By mele Having a disability doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. Absurd. They must have had a reason to ask her to stop, no? Maybe they found that out more about her condition and decided that letting her ride was too much of a liability. Sure, Disney knew about her disability...but the disability pass was most likely given to her because it was painful or unreasonable for her to stand in long lines, not because they were agreeing that she deserved to go on it over over to treat her illness. And once you state that they knew about her illness, then it's logical to assume that they were afraid of their own liability if she was hurt because of the exact same illness. Not a winning argument by any means.
Originally Posted By MPierce All I'm saying is let the facts in this case come to light. As I said before nobody thought the disabled person seeking use of a segway at WDW would win either. The woman said she was just seeking the reinstatement of her riding privileges. I'm sure she will be seeking legal expenses also. Who knows what she is really after. This could be another class action concerning the ADA.
Originally Posted By mele Exactly. I don't think we'll ever hear ALL of the facts. I don't necessarily think winning the case will mean much either because good lawyers can get juries to believe anything. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. Still think it's a bad idea to post on a bunch of websites about it. ;-)
Originally Posted By MPierce I agree about the posting on the web sites. It really serves no purpose, and there's a very good chance you could slip up, and type something that could hurt your case.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I didn't take part in the original thread for a few reasons, and I don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other over who's right and/or wrong here. I think there are some medical opinions that have been stated and I don't have the knowledge and expertise these people have so I respect their views. I also am not sure the woman if it really was her did herself any favor by coming here to present her side, but I can also see why someone might do so with their story in the media and knowing that Disney has weasels reading and posting here from time to time. My own thoughts are something like this ... she found a very unorthodox at best 'treatment' for her condition by riding a thrill ride ... whether it works for her or not isn't the issue at all as Disney theme park rides are not meant to treat or cure any illness (even the many mental ones that some 'fans' try to escape in a pixie dust haze) ... she was granted a pass from Disney, therefore she was entitled to whatever that pass gave her ... there are conflicting stories as to whether she demanded to be allowed to ride continuously ... if she did, she was very wrong no matter having her assistance card (which certainly didn't say 'this woman can ride as long as she wants whenever she wants because she has a physical disability/condition') ... and she was wrong even if some CMs who knew her had previously allowed it ... there's also some contention that the CMs working the day of her 'incident' at WDW were not Tower regulars and were rude to her and didn't want to respect her pass ... again, no way of knowing if it was true .. but if so, Disney was wrong ... then supposedly she engaged in a verbal disagreement with said CMs ... again, this happens every day (it's happening as I type this) and her card was taken away and she was 'banned for life' from WDW parks ... I think no matter what happened that day, that's plainly absurd. And it likely happened because Disney Legal was well lawyering up for lack of a better term ... what many folks don't realize is there are large companies (like and including Disney) who WANT to be sued -- that's what the big legal staff is for ... they'd rather be sued than have someone challenge them in the media or court of public opinion because Disney can afford a lengthy legal fight ... and they can often use that money and power to buy a verdict. Again, I don't know what the real deal is here. To me, the woman sounds like a wacko who likely was pushing for something she shouldn't have gotten -- the kind of preferential treatment Disney only gives the celebs, athletes, actors and Lindsay Lohans (she really is in a category of her own) ... but it's also very easy for Disney to say she uttered a bad word (maybe even that infamous 'F' one) and therefore she should be gone for good. I guess what I am saying if you've read this far is that I think there was some wrong on both parties side ... and unless this woman is looking for millions of dollars for being wronged, I think the Mouse probably should lift her 'ban', give her her pass back with the understanding that she can't ride ToT all day sans getting off like everyone else and let it go. As to letting the legal system do its work ... well, I have less faith in the legal system than I do in our ex-Prez having a brain ... any court room in Florida is going to be heavily weighed in favor of the big evil corporation vs. the individual. But I'd rather get back to one of MPierce's threads so that's it ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Exactly. I don't think we'll ever hear ALL of the facts. I don't necessarily think winning the case will mean much either because good lawyers can get juries to believe anything.>> You know, I like to say that stereotyping is vile but I have to say that as a rule lawyers are generally scum. Terrible, awful, pitiful excuses for humanity that will turn on a dime to make one. I know there are exceptions (I have a friend who represents abused children for the state of Vermont as an example ... but for every decent lawyer, there's 5,000 who are wastes of oxygen and lower the quality of life for everyone else.) As you stated, 'good' lawyers can determine what gets heard in cases. A sickening example happened here in SoFla recently, but made national news. Basically, a woman (divorced 40-something mom of three) goes to a hospital for kidney stones. She leaves with NO ARMS AND LEGS after her docs mis-diagnosed her, she fell into sepsis and they started sawing her limbs off. Naturally, she sued. The scum bag lawyer, from a high powered blueblood $700 an hour firm, played games and made sure the jury never heard any of the key evidence. So what happened? The woman didn't get a cent! Zero. Nada. Zilch. Even the talking heads on CNN were astounded this lawyer was able to use/abuse the system in such a way that she's left as a torso (without even decent prosthetics) and he made six figures for himself and his firm. And Disney is known for having some of the most dispicable type of lawyers, like this dude, on the payroll. So, no, I have no idea who is right or who is wrong. But I don't doubt if Disney is in the wrong that they'll be able to get evidence tossed.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad Yea Spirit, I avoided this one too because it just didn't add up. Disney's story and the womans story are just so different. It just seems odd that something this trivial would end up in a law suit. So I think I will continue to wait and see if more details come to light. You notice no other witnesses are telling their story? I would think it would take more than an f-word to be banned for life.
Originally Posted By barboy ////This could be another class action concerning the ADA.//// ----better not be, and any judge certifying should be removed. Also, I wonder if the complaining woman's counsel is one of those scum of the earth "frequent filers" who abuse the ADA's spirit??? The ADA is already a worthless steamy pile of law and has been invoked many times over for frivolous gain. It seems everyone(not literally 'everyone' but you knew that already, didn't ya?) in the US has a disability and wants to exploit their status for sympathy, money or both.
Originally Posted By barboy /// What am I doing wrong?/// Could it be that you haven't enlisted the services of a scum of the earth 'frequent filer' lawyer--- one who specializes in legalized shakedowns of public and private creatures via 'discriminatory' practices and ADA 'noncompliance'?
